To ask what you think about people hunting/shooting

[lorettalemon]

I was with quite a big group of people last night and some of them said that they enjoyed shooting (pheasants). Some of the rest of the group remained quiet and didn't say anything and I think they didn't want to argue. I quickly tried to change the subject because I had nothing polite to say.

I personally think that to blow creatures to bits, not with any intention of eating them (they said they had no idea what happened to them) for fun makes you a certain level of messed up in the head. It's lost on me how it's a sport. If you're intending to eat them, that's one thing, although hunting your own food isn't usually necessary in this day and age. Killing things because you enjoy doing it is absolutely lost on me.

I wanted to ask whether people generally think it's ok or not, because I can't believe that the majority of people can think it's ok!

BovaryX I found it! It is a marsupial - a Tiger Quoll. Apparently, at that time, they were called ‘Native Cats’. We still get them around here. They’re nasty little beggars though - they’re supposed to be endangered but we see (and hear) them frequently running up powerlines and killing chickens.

If you kill it you eat it.
Anything else is killing for fun, which is horrible

@theendofmyrope ...I totally agree,I couldn't have put it better!
How many pro hunters would want their own pet ripped apart by a pack of dogs?

My dad is a game farmer. He rears pheasants and partridges which are then sold to shoots across the country. It’s a very lucrative business. The birds aren’t cooped up in dirty sheds as a previous poster said; the living conditions are actually clean and spacious, and once the chicks get to a certain age they are released into pens where they have plenty of room to roam.
However, I rarely tell people what my dad does as I’ve had some pretty hostile reactions to it (including someone telling me that my dad is a murderer). I do understand why shooting is a divisive subject; I have no interest in shooting myself and if I am being completely honest, I have gone through times where my dad’s occupation has bothered me.

I hate it. That said I live in an area where pheasants fling themselves at your car...

We have kamikaze pheasants round here, they run across the lanes when they see a car coming, playing chicken. I get fed up of picking their feathers out of the car grill and having bits of them stuck in the bumper, it's cost me a fortune having the bumper repaired! Anyone's welcome to shoot them.

We have kamikaze pheasants round here, they run across the lanes when they see a car coming...I get fed up of picking their feathers out of the car grill and having bits of them stuck in the bumper, it's cost me a fortune having the bumper repaired! Anyone's welcome to shoot them

Maybe this is more an indictment of your driving than anything else. Maybe you are hurtling along country roads with zero regard for wildlife. You sound absolutely charming. As well as a potentially dangerous driver

I couldn't see myself hunting and shooting frankly but I am not a vegetarian and from what I've seen, animals and game etc who are shot on a hunt generally have a better life than farmed animals who go to the slaughterhouse - and they are eaten. I also think line fishing, where the fish are immediately killed by pinning when caught, is far more humane than trawler fishing with huge nets.

Hunting and shooting just for sport as opposed to food, such as fox hunting, is awful in my opinion but can't say the same about deer and grouse.

@thecatsthecats we really aren't 'hunter gatherers' anymore and haven't been for quite some time. Unless you include 'hunter-gathering' in Waitrose...

i cheer for hunting accidents

@Spinderellacutituponetime

That's kind of my point. Well, related anyway. You can't just get rid of an impulse and instinct by changing environment. You wouldn't expect it of any other animal, so I believe it's unrealistic to expect it of humans.

We still have reflexes based on falling out of trees, FGS.

My husband shoots, both pheasant and grouse. He is also a passionate fly fisherman as well.

We eat what he shoots. Frankly, I’d rather eat pheasant than battery farmed chicken.

@lorettalemon
As to why he shoots, I imagine it’s a combination of things: a way to see his group of friends and take part in a sporting activity together, the skilful challenge of ‘shooting straight’ and, yes, the tradition. His father and grandfather both shot, their guns (and plus fours etc!) passed onto him.

I can morally and logically square it with my conscience because we eat what he shoots and I know that shooting forms an important part of the rural economy here.

As for fly fishing, he does ‘catch and release’. We rarely eat any of the salmon or trout he catches. If we do, we will go for the stocked fish, leaving the wild fish (....for the poachers, probably).

Neither of us are fans of fox hunting, though.

There’s no denying that it is an activity pursued by those with a healthy disposable income, and that is where I do think the politics of envy come into play as it can be viewed as an archaic pastime that harks back to a time of us and them. But that really isn’t the whole picture.

I feel at pains to repeat that I'm not a fan of hunting, btw!

I just think that it's easy to be hypocritical and smug in this regard. There are millions of humans expressing regressive instinctive behaviours right now, doubtless including 99/100 of the people who claim some sort of moral superiority to those who do so in the form of hunting.

The fact is we are supposed to be a 'civilised race'. Yes, we used to hunt, when there was a need to hunt. There no longer is a need. I totally understand the argument for killing and eating your own food but I do not subscribe to the idea that that's okay because it's in our 'nature' and we are all animals anyway. That's bollocks. There's plenty of things stone age man got up to that we no longer do, that's not a reason to carry on doing it. The fact is while many people hunt on a small scale and eat what they kill, there are many more who make a hobby out of it and kill for needless amusement. As I mentioned before the demand to go out shooting pheasants (just one example) is so high and so lucrative that the pheasants are just being shot and dumped in huge mass 'graves'. When is that okay? To kill and torture animals, needlessly, seems ridiculously inhumane, which ever way you spin it. Excusing it because we need an outlet since it's part of our make-up is not a good enough reason, our inherent make-up is fairly violent (our bloody histoy bears witness to this) but we no longer stone people of hang draw and quarter them because it's not the civilised way...supposedly however ripping foxes apart is because someone has decided they are vermin and need to be controlled.
Pollitics of envy, my big fat ass. I spend a lot of time around these people and there couldn't be less envy involved.

We eat what he shoots. Frankly, I’d rather eat pheasant than battery farmed chicken

I agree. I eat bog standard supermarket meat...I'm under no illusion as to what it involves. I think it would be hypocritical of me to object to hunting and shooting on that basis.

You may find it distasteful, but it is not in the least bit strange that an apex predator species retains its hunting instinct.

We’re not apex predators. If we still lived in the wild, without the help of our houses and tools and weapons, we’d be prey for several species. Wolves for example.

i think shooting is (somewhat) more humane than factory farming. not a way to pass the time that i can relate to. but I'm not a vegetarian or vegan, so don't have a leg to stand on rationally. factory farming and the dairy industry too are truly evil and the kind of inertia which allows me to continue to consume animal products is an aspect of my character i don't tend to dwell on as I do know better!!

Maybe this is more an indictment of your driving than anything else. Maybe you are hurtling along country roads with zero regard for wildlife. You sound absolutely charming. As well as a potentially dangerous driver

Ha Ha Ha, my dear Miss Hysteric, as a 71 year old with a driving licence over 50 years old and never having had an accident or points added to it, I think my driving record stands favourably alongside that of anyone on MN! You don't have to be hurtling along to be hit by a pheasant!

Killing for fun, no. Killing to eat, yes.

My DH helped get rid of wild rabbits digging holes, it was dangerous for the horses breaking legs. We ate them, he wouldn't have done it, if we didn't eat them.

As to why he shoots, I imagine it’s a combination of things: a way to see his group of friends and take part in a sporting activity together, the skilful challenge of ‘shooting straight’ and, yes, the tradition. His father and grandfather both shot, their guns (and plus fours etc!) passed onto him.

It’s this kind of “tradition” that led to the irreplacable loss of a great deal of Australia’s wildlife. I’m not attacking your DH specifically; just the tradition itself - the upper class one that transferred itself over here, and the wildlife had no defences at all and were simply wiped out.

This "tradition' nonsense that's always trotted out is so tiresome. Bear baiting was tradition. Cock fighting was tradition. Public hangings were tradition. Get them back, shall we?

I would rather eat a shot pheasant from the local butcher than a battery farmed chlorine washed chicken from the supermarket. We live rurally and are surrounded by shoots. Literally I can think of about 7 within a few miles. Sporting shoots to me are fine, they shoot when the bird is high to give it a chance to get away, shooting low birds which then become inedible is not sporting but thankfully few of those shoots exist.

To everyone who's said about pheasants running under cars being a hazard of living in the countryside - that's definitely true. I remember as a kid, the journey to school was like an obstacle course and they'd run out into the road just as we'd pass. We did hit one and it was upsetting at the time. Years later we hit a badger on a dark country road, there was absolutely no way my dad could have missed it. Again, we were upset at the time and it did cause a lot of damage to the car, but these things happen.

I still don't understand shooting being a humane way to kill for meat being synonymous with actually enjoying the act of shooting.

No one is under any illusion about where meat comes from and many people are vegetarian/vegan on the grounds of inhumane treatment, but again, just because you'd rather eat something which has been killed humanely doesn't mean it's fun to kill it yourself or for others - that's what I don't get. Why do people personally want to have a day out executing birds? It's lost on me

I loathe hunting for sport. But I appreciate that culls are necessary and see this as part of the job of a gamekeeper and forester. Deer and boars don’t have natural predators anymore, so their numbers have to be kept to a certain size to ensure a healthy equilibrium with other wildlife and flora. Generally, they are killed quickly, without any cruelty by experienced marksmen and then immediately prepared for consumption. There are some people every year that stage hysterical protests about the bi-annual culls in Richmond and Bushey Park of the deer population. It’s an absolute must because there is limited space and food and over population would cause starvation and disease. The game is sold and proceeds are reinvested in supplementary feeding and medicine. I would not like people who aren’t experts at shooting to try for fun though. I think it is only ok if it is a clean shot and the animal does not suffer.

Sadistic and Psychotic to sum it up