Budget cuts and horrific news stories - AIBU?

[SinkGirl]

Switched on the BBC news at 10 last night (I’m normally in bed by then!)

First story was Johnson and Corbyn’s debate, lots of clips of them talking about funding cuts, NHS, police etc.

Next story was the horrific story of the man released from prison by mistake who went on the most horrific rampage of violence, rape and kidnapping until he was caught. The details of the story showed that the system had failed twice - once by not recalling him to prison, then by releasing him without being reviewed by the parole board as was stipulated in his sentence. The story also revealed that where he lives they are currently short 100 probation officers. His victims included a young brother and sister and their mother, right up to a woman in her 70s. It’s honestly one of the most disturbing cases I’ve ever heard. Apparently when he was arrested he told police “if you’d caught me after the first two, none of the rest of this would have happened”.

The next story was about the horrific case of the teenager who threw a young boy from the Tate Modern viewing platform. Until I watched this I didn’t realise that the teenager had planned this in advance and had done so in order that he could be on the news and talk about the lack of treatment he’s received for his autism, mental health issues and personality disorder. It’s one of the most horrific crimes I can think of, by a young man who is obviously extremely disturbed - where was the intervention he so clearly needed, not only for himself but to protect others? I have twin toddlers with ASD and I know from experience that they’d have no diagnosis and no support without me fighting for every single speck of it. The perpetrator was under the care of the local authority. Local authorities are billions in deficit, which is only increasing. The NHS is painfully under-funded.

I see this and I see the tragic consequences for society of budget cuts to criminal justice, health and social care. I believe in personal responsibility - these men are 100% responsible for their crimes. But the criminal justice system’s primary function is to protect society from criminals. The purpose of funding support for people with severe mental illness that can lead to violence (which is obviously a small subsection of mental illness) is not just to help that person, but to protect society from those who are a danger.

Obviously this is just one day’s worth of news, but these aren’t isolated incidents.

AIBU to think that properly funded services could prevent some cases like this? That actually it’s not just the person who doesn’t receive the service who’s at risk as a result, but all of us? Or so others not see that connection or not think it’s a factor?

However I think there is a huge issue with low sentences, negligence or organisational failures that lead to those getting released when they shouldn't be

I wholeheartedly agree. The system is broken, funding is only a part of it. We are down to 1.7% of rape cases even being prosecuted, let alone convicted. It’s an absolute disgrace. But you cannot separate the state of the system from the chronic underfunding, enormous cuts to the police force, cuts to social care, understaffing within the criminal justice system, etc.

And you think more money and more staff along the chain would have helped? I don’t know

How could it not have helped? How can a probation service function properly when they are down 100 probation officers?

This. Sadiq Khan had to step in with the John Warboys case. FFS.

Exactly!! It makes me rage that a discussion was even had in the first place.

Got you OP, apologies. When someone says McCann I think Madeleine.

I still think it is highly tasteless to equate psychotic behaviour with budget cuts and to ‘blame’ others for crimes that ultimately the individuals are responsible for.

I have never voted Tory in my life. But I think it is very distasteful to use the tragic Tate case to try and score political points.

Can anyone tell me why David McGreavy should be released?

OP, yes, the description is chaos, short staffing, max workloads etc

What I’m saying is, sometimes the system needs to be looked at, not the funding. Many times the funding goes to the wrong place. In the private sector, they also pay the bigwigs and cut back on foot soldiers.

There was money to send McCann on courses. Redirection of funds already available might be better.

You seem to be taking it quite personally that posters disagree with you, so I’ll step away now.

Properly funded services could prevent some of these issues. So could people taking full financial responsibility for their children, people raising their children properly etc. The only thing that would prevent all of these things happening would be if people stopped being evil. Even so the role of the state needs to be revaluated. Most services receive equal attention at the moment, clearly criminal justice and services targeting vulnerable people (children, mental health, elderly) need to be prioritised. The first because it’s one of the essential functions of the state to create safety and stability and the second because it’s wrong that in an affluent society where billions are spent on public services that vulnerable people who can’t be expected to provide for their own needs find themselves at the mercy of their parents/relatives.

ducky no, but I’m sure several people made money from his rehab and deliberating over his release. Sigh.

@SinkGirl a lot of probation officers are worse than useless. Having more of them won’t necessarily be useful. I think the post pp was trying to Male was that more staff/money alone isn’t going to solve the problem. Better training is essential.

The parole board has been privatised with disastrous effects, as seen in the last couple of weeks. It’s not fit for purpose. They were warned about it over a year ago in an enquiry. It’s ludicrous for Boris to stand there bleating on about longer sentences when his government have presided over changes that put the public at risk. John Warboys is another example.

I still think it is highly tasteless to equate psychotic behaviour with budget cuts and to ‘blame’ others for crimes that ultimately the individuals are responsible for.

Did you read my OP? I said the two men are 100% responsible for their crimes. That doesn’t mean we don’t need properly funded and effective services to try and reduce violent crimes and protect society from violent criminals.

The problem is sink you seem to think more money is the answer, and I don’t.

In fact perversely more money sometimes causes more problems - but to put it very baldly, of all the excellent services that need taxpayer funding, spending money ensuring young children don’t get thrown to their death by psychopaths is not something that’s really crossed my mind.

I still think it is highly tasteless to equate psychotic behaviour with budget cuts

The cut in budgets for mental health are a very serious problem.

It is extremely difficult to get mental health help for an adult who's not done something violent like hurt somebody. Lack of mental health services has caused the death of adults who commit suicide because they can't access help.

It's so depressing & I've completely lost faith with the justice system. One of my closest friends has been a Met officer for 15 yrs & 2 yrs in she said she wouldn't report a rape unless she was snatched by a stranger off the street, which is the rarer type.

As others have said I completely agree that more funding for youth services, mental health services, staff numbers & training is needed. However there seems to be a lack of appetite to acknowledge that some people want & will do unspeakable things regardless of how much help is available to them & undoubtedly there is a misuse of funds.

I didn’t say that more money is the whole solution. Certainly not just increasing taxes since clearly there’s no point in just throwing money at services that are not functioning due to years of cuts, and which aren’t treated as a priority.

I agree to some extent but the issues are so much more complex than anything money can sort out.
We have become a very fractured society. Families are very nucleur and support systems very fragile.
Slightly off topic but I am involved in a charity that houses homeless people and they will live in a shared house until they are able to bid for social housing.The address allows them to apply for benefits and the charity provides human support for practical tasks/emotional support etc. It is incredibly difficult finding homeless people who are able to live in a shared home without ructions due to the fact that many of them have issues with addiction. Of those that don't many have severe mental health issues or have a background of massive trauma of some kind. Even via the charity, it can involve hours and hours of volunteers time in emotional support/financial support and advice/practical help. It is not just funding that needs to be thrown at these situations, it needs every single citizen of the UK to decide that rather than just look after number 1, they will start to try and care for those around them.
Is there an elderly person next door to you that has no visitors. Are there jobs we could give to someone struggling for money. Are we looking after employees well enough? Are we teaching our kids to be kind and compassionate and look out for the struggling kids at school? Are we caring for our extended family who are struggling with finances/mental health issues/elderly frail and not coping.
OR.... are we trying to find a government who will sort it all out?? We need to make a difference one by one in the way we all live. There is not a magic amount of money that will make this right. Every human being on this planet needs to know that they are loved and money cannot begin and solve this.

Couldn’t agree more vdbfamily - the cuts to services are symptomatic of a much larger issue, where these services are seen as non-essential, but I think some people are short-sighted about the impact on all of us when these services fail.

Having unfortunately spent the last couple of years battling with the NHS, DWP, local authority and now social care to try and get support for my children, I’m acutely aware of how bad things are. I’ve been waiting for a social care OT assessment for months due to needing specialist beds for my twins, and they’ve come back and said they won’t even do an assessment until I make the arrangements even more dangerous for six months to prove it’s dangerous!

Also been trying to help an elderly neighbour who’s living in the most awful conditions. And have been personally left in horrendous dental pain for months because the only service i can be referred to can’t afford to provide all the services they’re commissioned for.

If you read the papers then you know things are bad but until you really experience it you have no idea how bad things really are. And we are fortunate compared to many because we can afford to house and clothe and feed ourselves without needing to rely on UC, and I can just about afford to not work so I can spend all my time researching the law and fighting against a system that deliberately sets you up to fail.

So yes, it’s close to home for me and it does make me angry - but I can’t imagine how McCann’s victims feel, knowing that what happened to them would never have happened if the proper processes had been followed. It’s just awful to think about.

I think it’s enormously sad that some our our most vulnerable- yes psychotic or sociopathic violent criminals- are not provided with appropriate preventative care and it degenerates to shocking crimes. Nobody wins. Many prisoners are people with significant learning disability and mental health problems. The prisons are overflowing with addicts. It’s often more about vulnerability than evil - the sadness is that in many cases, with early and adequate intervention many crimes could be avoided.