People with learning difficulties should be paid less.

[Drabarni]

The latest to come from CONSERVATIVE.
I think I must be missing something. Yet people will vote for these people why?
What do they offer the average working family?

There are many people with learning difficulties who are carrying out their normal day to day living, doing the same job and as well as someone without learning difficulties.

I've not seen anything other than discrimination from this party.
Anyone who votes for them are openly voting for discrimination as it's not like they don't know.

people work slower for all kinds of reasons. some people are just slow.

but hey ho, let's go after those with LDs again.

Cunts

@DowntownAbby - I'm bright enough thanks, the article clearly says,

'Speaking to the BBC, Miss Monckton said: "I'm not saying they can't be paid the minimum wage. I'm saying there shouldn't be a legal obligation to do so." '

Did you think she was advocating removing the legal NMW protection for certain people but expecting them to carry on getting NMW anyway? Or is she expecting them to get paid less money, which is what the idea clearly is.

It's not a Tory policy. It was the opinion of one councillor.

She's not 'just' a councillor, but also the Tory candidate for Hastings.

There is a world of difference between recognising the hurdles there are for employers who want to give meaningful work opportunities to people with significant learning disabilities and believing that all learning disabled people should get less than NMW because they 'don't understand about money' so that's OK. Sally Ann Hart was trying to ride on the coattails of the Spectator article to justify the latter, which is obnoxious and indefensible.

Hastings must wonder wtf it did in a former life to have just got rid of Amber Rudd only for her to be replaced by this. I hope it swings to Labour. I can't think why it wouldn't.

As far as I can see the OP has totally spun this into something it is not

I'm confused?

OP - may I ask what sort of learning difficulty /learning disability /specific learning difficulty you're refering to?

Surely they're different things?

There are lots of people without disabilities, learning or otherwise, who work more slowly than me. Perhaps I should be paid more than them. No worries. But they should still be paid the minimum.

@SunniDay yes this is the nuance that is often lacking in political debate. What you are suggesting makes sense and could work.

Unfortunately nuance has almost completely been lost to policy makers, so I can see any changes like the one suggested end up completely twisted into policy that discriminated against disabled people.

The UK has done this in the past And not too long ago either,

Here is a World In Action documentary from 1978 called Working For A Pittance.

Disabled people, people with learning difficulties and the elderly.

@Biker47, I have two daughters who have LDs.

One is a Manager of residential care. She has worked her way up to her role.

The other is a qualified Chef.

I think that you need to reevaluate your perception of LDs.

However, the two opinions focus on people who aren't of that capability. People who can't work as quickly and problem solve.

You used to see people with LDs collecting shopping trolleys and such like, now you don't.

That's because supermarkets want Staff to be as cost effective as possible.

Personally I do think the answer is to create community programmes that will provide work and investment that way.

The Football clubs used to provide work, I don't know if they still do.

But I can see how this would be also considered.

The person who said this has an Adult child with Down's Syndrome.

Both suggestions also said that disability benefits (or HB) should not be affected by this payment.

I’ve joined mumsnet to say that you clearly have no idea who Rosa Monckton is. She has a daughter with Down Syndrome, and has campaigned for years for equality. To make this into a political point is quite frankly wrong.

As a parent of a child with a learning disability, I can understand her point. She is not saying exploit people with LD. Instead she is saying give them an opportunity for employment. According to Mencap, only 6% of people with a learning disability known to their local authorities are in paid employment, despite the majority wanting a paid job.

Charities who used to offer paid work experience are being forced to close, as they cannot afford to run these schemes. So whilst of course I would like my child to be paid the minimum wage, the harsh reality is that is not going to happen. And by enforcing this rule, it is forcing thousands of people with a learning disability out of the work force and into social isolation.

Disabled people especially those with a LD are always targetted because they are seen as lesser this woman has said this because she sees those with learning difficulties as having lesser needs so advocates "theraputic earnings" she and people like her are indeed cunts!

I think that you need to reevaluate your perception of LDs.

No I don't, I'm well aware it's a broad church, I know everyone isn't the same.

I'm
Struggling to understand why people think all learning disabilities are the same.

Some people have mild disabilities which can be managed in the work place with minor adjustments. Let's say it's a cafe and you have a till system instead of an old fashioned punch machine, someone who downs or even autism could work there with some adjustments.
Automatisation is making it much easier to do many jobs so if you're an employer who doesn't make the adjustments then you're missing out on productivity gains and that's no good for you whether you have a disabled employee or not.

Everyone should be paid the same minimum wage.

This is the problem with Tories, isn’t it? It doesn’t matter how good you are, how kind, how generous, forgiving or courageous.
Your worth as a person will still come down to how quickly you can make a Subway Melt.

I don't understand why the response to 'raising minimum wage is putting people with LDs out of work' is 'well we should change the law so that companies don't have to pay employees with LD minimum wage (because of slower work speed/greater supervision required/less responsibility etc)'. Surely a fairer response would be government subsidies for companies with LD employees to enable them to continue paying minimum wage?

I appreciate that the original article was written by a woman whose daughter has severe Downs syndrome. However, not every adult with learning disabilities is going to have a supportive family, for some having a job is not just about being part of a community/making a contribution to society, it's also about having money to afford to live. People with LDs are already vulnerable to exploitation, if a 'therapeutic exemption' to minimum wage was brought in, what is to stop employers applying that to people whose LD didn't affect their work abilities? What is to stop it carrying on to impact anyone who requires reasonable adjustments to be able to work?

Tbh it's not what she said so much.......it's how she said it. ' they don't understand money '. Which is bollocks. And I say that as a parent of a child with disabilities.

At some point I want my son to work, he'll need to..for his own sanity. But the reality is he's going to need carers to help him even access work and he won't be able to compete a task as well as somebody else. However I still want him to be paid. He has that right, there's little dignity in voluntary work.

The best way to do this would be a profit based work placements, eg a place has opened near to me. It's a cafe that was set up by a care provider and is staffed by their clients.......their clients don't take home a wage as.such. They.do however share the profits. Which I think is more than fair........a bit like jibcraft etc which used to employ people with disabilities. Until they were all closed down........why do we keep going backwards ?? 🧐🤔

They don't understand money translates too well they don't really matter doesn't it?

if a 'therapeutic exemption' to minimum wage was brought in, what is to stop employers applying that to people whose LD didn't affect their work abilities? What is to stop it carrying on to impact anyone who requires reasonable adjustments to be able to work?

And when that happens, there’ll be nothing to stop them arguing that the whole minimum wage concept is uneconomic. After all, there will be people they employ who do less than the people they employ with disabilities. Why not pay them less as well? In fact, why not have a “productivity wage”; it could be adjusted according to output, so you get £8 an hour if you’re having a good hour but if your productivity drops (you need a shit, or you feel a bit tired after lunch, or you’re having a bad day because your rabbit died) your wage can be subject to a DDA (Dynamic Downwards Adjustment). It could be like the 18th century all over again.

Well quite T1redmum I think a lot of people are deliberately missing the, point, both my children have learning difficulties, my oldest has very mild learning difficulties,he's in a mainstream school and although in low sets he was will be able to live independently he will be more of than capable of working and holding down a job ,my youngest has severe autism and learning disabilities , he's at a special school and is non verbal it is highly unlikely he will ever be independent and will need a high level of support in any employment setting , it's annoying that peop!e twist these articles for their own political agenda,s but whenever there are threads about learning disabilities ,there is a high level of ignorance and disablism .

Biker

If you can't see your point is discriminatory then there's no hope.
A blanket "let em work for less" is discriminatory.
What about all those wih learning difficulties that don't impact the work they do. For those doing a better job than some without difficulties for various reasons.
I don't think demanding equality for all is delusional. Maybe, a bit too hopeful for a conservative government. I'll give you that.

Surely a fairer response would be government subsidies for companies with LD employees to enable them to continue paying minimum wage?

I guess, by default they will through UC. I've never claimed UC so forgive me if I mis-understand but my understanding is that, if someone is employed for less than minimum wage, the rest would be topped up by UC?

I'm also going to put it out there that the tories have stopped disabled person's tax credits which allowed a low paid worker to have their wages topped up. On ESA someone disabled could do a certain number of hours each week for a year to try and ease back into work while staying signed on to benefits.

Those two sources of financial support for working disabled people are now gone and replaced by universal credit which treats disabled people really harshly. Hardly an incentive to do a few hours work.

no one should have to work for less than the minimum wage.
I find it sad that anyone should think that is ok.

have to say I think the op deliberately made the thread title bad to get post and stir. I would never vote tory as they really don't care about disabled people. we saw that with Cameron and it has carried on.
people who say business can't afford to pay people pay people with Lds the minimum way are also part of the problem.
it is discrimination.
the government (who ever it is) should be helping, they are the ones who are so keen to cut benefits.

x 2boys

This government has culled the support that your child would have gaining work and support through employment.
now, they think it's right to pay less as well as take the support.
i don't care what name the government have who have done this. It's sad that your child's support has been taken and you think people informing you of this just have a political agenda.

no, I don't like conservative because they do things like this to the vulnerable, do you want us to lie and say, how great the cons have looked after the needy and vulnerable.

If somebody is working a day a week say in a cafe then they should be paid nmw for that, Sally Anne Hart made herself look an utter fool saying what she did and now she is trying to back pedal.