Disiplinery

[Bazmum]

So to cut a long story short I'm a cleaner and my managers came in today saying they were doing an investigation cos a customer complained I'd stolen something from her obviously I had no idea what they were talking about but they said they had me on cctv which showed me picking what i thought was rubbish up off the floor and putting it in my pocket til I was near a bin turns out the rubish was in fact a packet of cigs that belonged to a customer I don't remember doing this as I work in a busy supermarket and I'm forever picking things up now ive got to have a disciplinary surly I can't get sacked for something as trivia as this please help

If its considered theft then yes you can as its gross misconduct. I would be praying cctv shows you put it in the bin

Ask them to continue looking at you in the Cctv tape and it'll show you emptying your pocket into a bin - it's hardly what I'd call lost property - a used cigarette box with perhaps a few left in
Do you have anyone you can take with you? Perhaps a union rep if you're in a union?
Good luck

It would be helpful if CCTV showed the OP binning it, but I don't think it's essential to her argument - assuming she has worked there for six years without any issues.

• OP doesn't smoke, so the cigarettes would be of no value to her
• As a non-smoker, it didn't occur to her to check what was in the packet - she just saw it as rubbish and picked it up, as she would any other item not obviously of value.
• Anyone attempting to steal the cigarettes would be expected to make some attempt to conceal their actions - not just pocket them in view of CCTV which as an employee of 6 years' standing, the OP knows full well is there.

Have you seen the CCTV?

Some of you might think it would be distinctive but when your working in a busy place and forever picking rubbish up you don't remember every little bit you've picked up sadly cctv doesnt cover the bin as they are situated outside of the store and cctv shows me going out and coming back in less than a minute later

But for the love of mike, a cigarette packet is rubbish! As a non smoker I would just throw it away.

Are cigarettes not un branded now? So not as distinctive as you might think

Who the hell would make an official complaint about a pack with some cigs left in it ?
Instead of just telling you that's their packet and can they have it back, please

And the daft management for taking this seriously
Probably like pp here, who also have never worked as cleaners, they think it suspicious to put rubbish in your pocket

Do you belong to a union ?
Consult them and take a union rep with you to the mtg

If not, take a sensible friend with you for moral support
and explain that you are always putting rubbish in your pocket, like many cleaners do

• maybe they would check for other CCTV footage of you doing this

And remember to say you don't smoke

I know this might sound silly to people it did to me when I found out today and I was mortified that someone could think that of Me when I was just doing my job and keeping the store clean

I often put rubbish in my pocket too even if it’s something a child dropped in my house, I find that normal to do if you are busy and not near a bin! I also have to say I would have even binned a half used packet as a non smoker I wouldn’t appreciate their value and wouldn’t expect someone to come back for them! I think though joining a union would be a good idea regardless of the outcome of this occasion but I think you are being treated unfairly in my opinion(which with no hr experience means very little!

Does the store not have CCTV outside?

“To cut a long story short”

What’s the long story?

Arguably, cigarette packets are distinctive because they've got big health warnings on them and pictures of rotting lungs, gangrenous feet and so forth.

However, there's nothing that distinguishes an empty packet from a full one to the casual observer. If I saw a fag packet lying around, I'd assume it was empty. A non-smoker who isn't used to the weight of a full packet (not that they are very heavy) might well pick it up and bin it without realising there was anything inside.

A full or nearly full packet won't rattle either, which is a giveaway with a half-used one.

How/why did this get picked up?

It seems odd to me that a supermarket has gone back through the security feed to track down a customer's missing fags. If the customer saw you pick them up then why not say something to you? It's all a little bit odd. And even if the store were super helpful how can anyone be sure if the pack you picked up was full or empty?

Have you seen the footage? Is there a camera near the bin you usually empty your pockets in? Or anyone who sees you empty out the rubbish there if not that day but normally?

I would right out a statement Anything you remember about that day and then a flat I can't remember picking up the cigarettes in particular.

Then right a statement about your usual practice on a standard shift I go in clean the freezers then the fruit and veg etc, etc picking up rubbish on the way as there are no facilities to put the rubbish it goes into my pocket until I am back in the store room where it is all put into x bin.

Don't let them draw you into guessing you Don't remember that's ok but don't start saying well I could of would of may have done x,y and z.

Have they said you can take someone with you? I would ask to have someone there or if not some way to record the conversation so it can be turned into well you said at the meeting!

Sadly cctv doesnt cover outside the front of the store but I wish it did but like I said this happened on november 29 and I only found out about it today and I've done so many shifts since then I can't remember even picking any cigs up

Thank you for all the messages I'm going to fight this all the way

Good luck.

I'm not an expert, but I don't think the case against you is very strong. Stick to the fact that you have no recollection of picking up the cigarettes and make sure they know you are a non-smoker.

Thank you I will be sure to do that

Good luck, I hope you win.
When I used to clean I had a tabard with a big pocket on the front and have put all sorts of odd things in it til I could reach a bin or whatever.

Keep cool. You have done nothing wrong. You picked up a packet, popped it is the bin and thought nothing of it. You do not smoke, you have a long record of working with no complaint against you. You work hard and management have not suspended you and so on.

I think it is the case that management have to follow up this complaint and report back to the customer. I suspect no action will be taken.

A dropped packet of cigarettes and a supermarket trawled through cctv

I know it sounds ridiculous all this over a packet of cigs it's like I'm being penalised for doing my job and keeping the store clean

This doesn't make sense to me at all. If the customer dropped them, would they really expect a member of staff to pick them up and put them in lost property?! How is it stealing? Taking something from a person's bag / pocket / trolley, yes that's stealing. Picking up personal belongings such as wallet, phone, and not handing it in, most definite stealing. But picking up a random packet of fags? did the customer report that they'd dropped them, then the store traveled through CCTV until it found the OP picking them up from the floor??

There has to be more to it then this.

That's the thing there isn't more too it and I don't remember picking any cigs up I was just doing my job and keeping the store clean