To think HR office should be better about breastfeeding mums

[Livingoffcoffee]

I've recently returned to work after mat leave and started at a new company, so don't have an existing relationship with the HR manager.
However, when I accepted the job offer I stated that I would be pumping and need a space to do so. All the meeting rooms in the office are glass, so the only private room is the HR managers office.

Most of the time she lets me use her office (though does make it clear it's an inconvenience for her). But more and more she is emailing me just before our agreed time to say she has meetings all day and her office isn't free. So now I'm sitting in the loos, pumping away.

AIBU to think that she should be better about this? And know that legally they are even required to provide a space for mums who are breastfeeding to lie down and rest if needed?

I don't want to get into a thing with her about it, but just feeling really annoyed that I'm being treated as an inconvenience for her when really she should know and be much more helpful.

@Jammydodger1981 & @European12345 I was going off this from the NCT page:

Employers are legally required to provide a space for mums who are breastfeeding to lie down and rest if they need to.
There is no legal right, however, for your employer to provide breastfeeding breaks at work. But they must meet their obligations to employees who breastfeed under health and safety law, flexible working law and discrimination law. This means your employer should make sure you don't feel unfairly treated because you are breastfeeding.

Well, given that most people on the thread agree, as does the legal recommendation I don't think the OP can be classified as looking for a problem by wanting privacy

Sounds like you just want it to be an issue to me when it really doesn’t need to be

the issue is the right for privacy, how hard is that to understand?
A door that cannot be locked can be worked around, a glass wall not so much!

@Livingoffcoffee

yeah unluckily I kept finding confusing information when trying to request it in my company..some places it said def it's by law but some others it said recommended but not compulsory .

however, if you read what you've copied to me it says there must be a place so you can LIE DOWN, but it doesn't say a place so you can PUMP.

More from ACAS
www.acas.org.uk/index.aspx?articleid=5271

Health and safety law says an employer must provide somewhere suitable for a breastfeeding employee to rest. But it doesn't say an employer must provide somewhere for them to breastfeed. However, it is not suitable to use toilets for breastfeeding.

An employer is advised to provide a private, hygienic and safe place for employees to breastfeed, and express breast milk and then store it somewhere cool (which doesn't need to be for breast milk only).

@churchandstate

Yes in general you’re correct, but as this business is offering OP the use of the room when it’s free, they then wouldn’t have any difficulty in claiming that her using the HR room when confidential meetings etc. needed to take place wasn’t impacting the business and could perfectly well withdraw the use of the room at that time.

Law aside, do you drive to work? Could popping out to your car be an option?

How old is your DC? if they're 1ish I'd just let the daytime supply drop and just feed them when you see them rather than all the hassle of expressing.

I can’t believe neither the op or the HR manager have thought ‘hmmm, why don’t we see if blinds can be put up in one of the meeting rooms’

Op, you seem to have taken NCT as gospel but have ignored other parts of the same page

*You should be able to express milk at your workplace if you wish. You can request that your employer provides you with a suitable private space where you can do this.

Guidelines recommend that you have access to a private, clean and comfortable room with a lockable door - not a toilet - in which to express. However, there is no legal obligation for your employer to provide this space

It's also recommended that you have use of a fridge to store your breast milk.*

So, it is recommended but not a legal requirement

Lol @ the glass issue

Absolutely not appropriate to have your tits out on display in most offices. I couldn't pump in that setup anyway, I'd be so stressed & embarrassed milk would never appear.

I can't believe someone would even suggest that!

My pump parts are a faff to assemble & imagine getting your top off, milk leaks etc.... While being viewed through glass. At work

@AllTheUserNamesAreTaken I've already said it's not that the other rooms have windows- it's that they literally are glass walls.

I guess my thought re the guidelines is that if they should be more accommodating in general. If that says legally there should be a place to lie down, I'm 100% not getting that - would settle to just not be treated as an inconvenience!

@Mrscog He's 10mo. But that shouldn't really matter, I'd argue. I'd love to not need the hassle of expressing, but he's struggled with taking any formula and been ill for a bit which means he wants more milk than usual.

Law aside, do you drive to work? Could popping out to your car be an option?
If OP uses an electric pumper instead of a hand one a car (where she doesn't have any privacy) isn't neither a good option

AllTheUserNamesAreTaken, I asked for blinds in my coworking space... still waiting a year after for it (and I'm still breastfeeding just dont pump which I hated anyway)

I guess my thought re the guidelines is that if they should be more accommodating in general.

possibly, but have YOU got any suggestion to make? You know your work place, none of us do.

Using the HR manager's office is not a solution. At least she is female so is entitled to express her inconvenience.

No good suggestions, but I also ended up expressing in the loos - the only space they offered was a small office where the photocopier is, no windows but people kept coming in to use the photocopier despite a notice on the door asking them not to come in and I couldn't stand it! It's really difficult, I'm currently on mat leave again and this is one of the many reasons I'm not looking forward to going back.

I just want to sympathise with you OP. I have been pumping at work and it's been tough because of things like this. A source of great stress. I do it in the back room but people come and go and it's not ideal. There is definitely nowhere for me to lie down, not that I would. But I think it's terrible how inadequate the legal provision is, leaving us to feel like we are somehow being unreasonable and inconvenient and relying on goodwill. If I ever havr the time or energy I want to campaign to change this. Good luck OP.

Why would we need somewhere to lie down the mind boggles

I mean, I love a lunchtime nap, and have been known in some workplaces to take myself off for one, but what's it got to do with breastfeeding.

If it were me, if you drive. I'd pump in the car (some great cheap pumps are rechargeable so no mains power needed). If not I'd just use the glass offices, or do it at my desk. Or just try not to need to do it in the day given your baby isn't so tiny any more. It would be nice if they gave you a room, but if they don't have one, they don't have one...

Law aside, do you drive to work? Could popping out to your car be an option?

Madness.

If not I'd just use the glass offices, or do it at my desk.

well I wouldn't.
I could just about breast-feed my baby at my desk - but pumping? Fuck that, that's a big fat no.

*Why would we need somewhere to lie down the mind boggles

I mean, I love a lunchtime nap, and have been known in some workplaces to take myself off for one, but what's it got to do with breastfeeding.*

Everything. Breastfeeding is tiring on new mothers, particularly when they are returning to the workplace. Obviously.

The organisation I work for is shit hot on equality and diversity issues. Nevertheless, my colleague was very surprised to find out that there wasn't anywhere for BF women to express milk when she was planning her return to work. The building has the same issue as OPs - all the non-open plan bits have either floor-to-ceiling glass internal walls or very big windows.

What we do have is a very nice shower room, with a big space outside the actual shower cubicle. It's nicely decorated and spotlessly clean, and very rarely used. They put a comfy chair in there and it's now where people go to pump.

We don't have anywhere to lie down though!

@Livingoffcoffee
But with actual bf (a not teeny baby), you've got him popping off to say hi, squirting milk everywhere, not wanting to feed because everything is too interesting, pinching your nipple in different directions to watch it hose. Basically minor carnage, if it's anything like my baby.

In comparison, pumping is so much more discreet, less messy. And because there's no pop off etc, you actually see far less boob. A year ago, I'd have been horrified at the idea, but surely if someone is comfortable enough to bf in public, they should be able to pump in public, given how much more discreet you can be.

What would happen if there were no rooms? I work in an small open plan office where the 3 meeting rooms are glass. What would happen then?

Pumping is a lot less discrete than breastfeeding. You often do have to strip, if you're using a double pump.

I also think this is not right, but also not necessarily the HR woman's fault. I would raise it and explain that it isn't acceptable for you to have to pump in the toilets. Even if it isn't enshrined in law, most decent employers would not expect you to pump milk to feed your baby in a loo which is used by the whole office presumably.

In comparison, pumping is so much more discreet, less messy. And because there's no pop off etc, you actually see far less boob. A year ago, I'd have been horrified at the idea, but surely if someone is comfortable enough to bf in public, they should be able to pump in public, given how much more discreet you can be.

100% irrelevant

You might be comfortable, but others are not. They don't have to.
I wouldn't pump at my desk, in a supermarket, in a cafe or anywhere not private. Full stop.

In comparison, pumping is so much more discreet, less messy. And because there's no pop off etc, you actually see far less boob. A year ago, I'd have been horrified at the idea, but surely if someone is comfortable enough to bf in public, they should be able to pump in public, given how much more discreet you can be.

How YOU feel isn’t the issue. There is no “surely” about it. It’s an intimate bodily function and it is a disgrace that any woman should feel forced to carry it out in front of clients, colleagues or service users.

Christ when I pump you could see a huge amount. Maybe it depends on size, but it would have been incredibly indecent to pump in the glass walled rooms at my office.