Respecting mental health issues vs. asking someone to take some reponsibity for their own life

[Fralla]

I might get slayed for this as I know I am being insensitive to people with mental health issues for saying this, but how do you deal with people who refuse to take responsibility for their own lives, or accountability for where they have ended up in life, whilst they are quoting anxiety?

I have posted about exH before. We separated four years ago now, and his life has slowly gone down hill since. He has now got anxiety issues which he is using as an excuse for everything. This is why he won't take the kids to any activites, why he wont keep them clean, why he says he'll take them to birthday parties but then don't, why he couldn't get DS a single birthday present, why he cant feed them properly etc.

He has now also lost his job and can't find a new job due to anxiety.

But from my point of view, I could see this coming 10 years ago! I remember when we were together, trying to encourage him to get some qualifications, a drivers license, a social life. But he has always chosen to sit on his Xbox. Always. Every day when he got back from work, and every waking hour at the weekend, he chose to play xbox or to gamble away his money. No house work, no spending time with kids. It was hell living with him.

I remember thinking back then, that if he doesn't try now to build a career, or doesn't try to make himself more employable, if he doesn't make sure to make an effort with friends, he's gonna end up in a really bad place one day.

And that's where he is now. Middle aged, no job, no money, no drivers licence, bad health, no friends. Of course this situation is going to lead to mental health issues! However I can't stop thinking that this is self inflicted, due to not trying harder or having any aspirations whilst he was younger?

He is in the situation he is now, because he let his life go downhill. Because he could get benefits. Because he couldn't be bothered to work harder. (He was allowed 10 days sick days per max, he viewed these as holiday days and always made sure to take 10 days off sick as an example!!!).

I really haven't got it in me to feel sorry for him now. Is this really bad of me or can I, despite him having anxiety, ask him to step up and still parent his children properly??

You don't have to feel sorry for him. You don't have to feel anything.

You do, however, have to be sensitive to the fact that you have DC with this man whose MH is failing for whatever reason, and his MH issues will inevitably impact your DC. I don't know what the 'right' thing to do is, but I do think sometimes you have to let things wash over you because being cross with him or his situation isn't going to change it.

All you can do is be the constant in your DC's lives, hold your own life together and be there for them if they're hurt because of this. You can't change your Ex, his MH or his attitude. If they ask questions or want to know why he is the way he is, be truthful with them, and if they ask why their Dad can't/won't do x, y and z, answer them honestly.

Being ill doesn’t mean he gets to wallow in it.

If he’s neglecting the children like that I’d re-evaluate contact. Not stop it but maybe take them out for afternoons instead. Make him pick them up from you.

It can’t be good for them being there.

Often the other issues e.g. constantly playing Xbox etc is a symptom of mental health issues. My cousin who has ADHD, anxiety and possibly ASD was massively addicted to his games console as it provided escapism. he got help quite young though and improved massively. It is incredibly frustrating when someone has mental health issues they're struggling to resolve so I have sympathy for you as well as your ex.

Is he on medication? Having therapy?

I suffer debilitating anxiety despite taking a multitude of meds and having a lot of therapy; my children are well looked after, it’s myself that I neglect. I have a cleaner because I can’t always keep on top of the house myself.

I’ve acknowledged what I can and cannot do with my illness and taken steps to fill the gaps.

It isn't bad of you to not feel sorry for him (what good would feeling sorry for him do anyway?.

Re: asking him to step up and be a parent.
Your dcs needs take priority over his. If his anxiety is so disabling that he is unable to keep them fed then you may need to re-think contact arrangements so that the DC needs can be met, eg him taking them for an afternoon, rather than overnights. This may be the motivation he needs to take some more positive steps to overcoming his anxiety, or it may be that he really cannot do so. But it's not about him, it's about the DC.

Tbf his life now sounds absolutely grim and on the way to getting worse (damaging his relationship with his DC) so I'm coming down on the side of his anxiety being genuine, rather than something he is able to control. I agree with everything FudgeBrownie said.

Have an extended family member like that. If he was younger, i imagine he'd be diagnosed with ASD, maybe referred to some sort of professional support or therapy. But in his mid 60s is way too late and family is simply fed up and not bothering anymore. Sad really.

All you can do is be the constant in your DC's lives, hold your own life together and be there for them if they're hurt because of this. You can't change your Ex, his MH or his attitude. If they ask questions or want to know why he is the way he is, be truthful with them, and if they ask why their Dad can't/won't do x, y and z, answer them honestly.

Thanks for replying. It's tough though. My youngest was feeling sad this morning that he won't get to spend Christmas with his dad. The thing is, three years ago I begged him to have them for Christmas, as he has family here and I don't, so it would just be me and them two in a flat for Christmas Eve, Christmas Day and Boxing Day. But he REFUSED because he was going to have a bachelors Christmas binge with his one friend lasting three days. The next year he did have them for Christmas but he didn't take them to see family, and didn't cook them a Christmas dinner. It was just the three of them on Christmas day having a curry.
So now I've given up on him having them for Christmas but it makes my little one sad, and he seems to think that it's because I won't let it happen. I can't be honest and tell him that their dad can't really be bothered to have them.

Often the other issues e.g. constantly playing Xbox etc is a symptom of mental health issues. My cousin who has ADHD, anxiety and possibly ASD was massively addicted to his games console as it provided escapism. he got help quite young though and improved massively. It is incredibly frustrating when someone has mental health issues they're struggling to resolve so I have sympathy for you as well as your ex.

Yes I appreciate this but I still think that part of being an adult is self reflection, and that you at some point think that "this is not healthy, maybe I should go and see my GP and get some help". Not to just let it go on and on and on?

Is he on medication? Having therapy?

No, he won't seek help. Even when we were together I tried to get us to go to couples therapy as the marriage was breaking down, but he told me that "there's nothing wrong with me, it's you that needs help"

Tbf his life now sounds absolutely grim and on the way to getting worse (damaging his relationship with his DC) so I'm coming down on the side of his anxiety being genuine, rather than something he is able to control. I agree with everything FudgeBrownie said.

I'm sure it is genuine now, but I still think that in a way he has let it get to this. He is still insisting on having them every other weekend, but he won't actually do anything with them during that weekend. They just sit indoors all three of them playing computer games, missing all activities /parties. It makes me worry they'll end up like him.

No, that's not an easy thing at all.

But you can say "Daddy isn't very well at the moment" and explain the concept of brains becoming unwell just like bodies do. Explain it that Daddy's brain isn't well, that he needs to try and do things to get better and for some people those things they need to do aren't easy, that for some people their brains are so unwell that they can't fix themselves. That way your DC understand that he's absent because of things he's doing, rather than because of things they're doing.

I can't imagine how tough it is, trying to ensure he maintains that bond with them. I do think at some point you have to allow him the consequences of the behaviours he's chosen because you can't force him to put them first. You can only guide them through it and repeat that none of this is about them. I hope you and your DC can make a happy christmas of your own, even if it's not the one you're hoping for.

But you can say "Daddy isn't very well at the moment" and explain the concept of brains becoming unwell just like bodies do. Explain it that Daddy's brain isn't well, that he needs to try and do things to get better and for some people those things they need to do aren't easy, that for some people their brains are so unwell that they can't fix themselves. That way your DC understand that he's absent because of things he's doing, rather than because of things they're doing.

I can't imagine how tough it is, trying to ensure he maintains that bond with them. I do think at some point you have to allow him the consequences of the behaviours he's chosen because you can't force him to put them first. You can only guide them through it and repeat that none of this is about them. I hope you and your DC can make a happy christmas of your own, even if it's not the one you're hoping for.

Thank you, definitely food for thought.

He is still insisting on having them every other weekend, but he won't actually do anything with them during that weekend. They just sit indoors all three of them playing computer games, missing all activities /parties. It makes me worry they'll end up like him

How old are the DC? It sounds like they may vote with their feet soon, as they can't look forward to going to his.

They spend the majority of their time with you; you'll have much more influence on them than he will. They will see that there are different ways to live. If you'd stayed together they would be more likely to view his way of being as the norm.

As somebody with a long list of MH shit, its my responsibility to take responsibility for my treatment, especially with appointments and medication, or i expect no help or sympathy. Infact I dont think I expect that anyway. If I had kids this would be even more the case

This latest 'got anxiety' shit coming from every quarter as a catch all excuse is starting to wear me down.

OP I kind of get you.My husband is on the spectrum of Autism and he suffers from depression and anxiety Whilst I understand lufe can be hard for him during episodes real life has to continue, Like yesterday for example ..he was in a cow of a mood being clever and back chatting and being a general arse so I had a go at him and put him straight on a few issues. He was then poorly for night and slept on the sofa. Now no way was he poorly he was in fact sulking and trying to prove a point,and feeling woe is me cos i had had a go at him for beng bloody unreasonable.So he thinks he is punishing me but also that he can get away with it cos he has issues.The only issue he had was he was being a prat and was told,He didnt like it,This is a highly motivated functioning adult who works full time and is a parent too.But when he is that way out he can be a pillock! He does try to hide behind his issues and for years had me wondering was this a mental health crisis or was he just being a shit, I have worked out the difference and he doesnt get away with it dispite him trying it on. There is a genuine difference I truly believe that, Ninety nine times out of a hundred he is great but when he has a genuine episode I know it and help him gladly but the odd time like yesterday he was obviously trying it on and he is not playing those games with me .

It is hard when it impacts on your children, OP

But you've said he won't seek help and you can't do it for him - it is down to him to make the changes.

Would he come over Christmas Eve if you invited him for a bit, or would he take the children for the afternoon?

Yanbu op. I've got no time for people that won't help themselves.

If you won't help yourself, why the fuck should I?

It sounds like his inability to throw himself into life 10 years ago was a symptom of poor mental health.

It very much is important that people take as much responsibility as they can for their own mental health, but an uncomfortable truth is that some people can't do this very effectively. For whatever reason. Probably something to do with lack of self worth. They need help and support from the community and social care that just doesn't exist. And yes, over time, low grade poor mental health can snowball into bigger more entrenched problems.

It really isn't as simple as personal responsibility. Nobody genuinely chooses a shit life.

It is unacceptable for him to not feed and care for the kids in his care, so if he can't do this then they can't stay. Of course that's very sad for you all, but that's the reality. Mental ill health is so very difficult.

All you can do is protect the kids, maybe look at reducing contact as it doesn't sound like he does much with them. It might be that he can't help it but it's not fair for them to suffer.

It's a horrible balancing act, trying to work out what is better for the kids; the contact with their Dad or being away from some honestly quite negative behaviour on his part. They need to be fed and clean at a minimum, and if he's not doing that then it is verging on neglect, which will be damaging for their relationship with him on the long run, as well as detrimental to them in the short term. Mentally, they're not learning good coping strategies from him for feeling bad, so you might need to talk to them about that too. One thing I have heard is the three threes - three people to talk to, three places to go, three things to do, that will help when they feel bad.

Talk to them honestly about it as other people have said, and ask them how they feel and what they would prefer to do with him on days they are with him. Encourage them to ask him for what they want, and to tell him when they're not getting it. Make sure they know it's a grown ups job to look after them and to do things with them, and tell them they can tell you what they want from you too.

Good luck with it, it's a situation that I'm familiar with.

Also, please remember you can't make him better and you need your kids to realise that his own mental health is his responsibility not theirs.

So whilst he won't have chosen to live like this, and it's probably got worse over time, and what you've said he does sounds like some unhealthy coping mechanisms, he is responsible for helping himself to get better, the first step is a GP visit, but that's his job, not anyone else's. Don't get sucked in, your only job here is to protect your kids from any negative consequences of his current behaviour.