AIBU to think that the focus on academic success is causing this?

[jellyfrizz]

Every three years the OECD produces a survey which looks at the reading, maths and science ability of 15 year olds, as well as questioning them on attitudes.

While doing ok on the academic side, England scores really badly on life attitudes.

"The OECD tested children in 79 countries, and found that British 15-year-olds ranked 69th out of 72 countries in the world for life satisfaction, with boys in particular among the least satisfied with their lives."

"...British children ranked next to last among those agreeing that “my life has a clear meaning or purpose”"

(www.theguardian.com/education/2019/dec/03/british-schoolchildren-among-least-satisfied-with-their-lives-says-oecd-report)

I find this so sad. AIBU to believe that the focus on achievement in Maths and English to the detriment of pretty much every other subject is a major factor in this? If more focus was given to achievement in ALL areas would children feel their lives were more meaningful?

Maybe they're just being honest. I don't have any meaning or purpose in my life; I don't think it's that unusual.

I agree with you OP, it isn’t right the way we train children for exams rather than let them learn a wide range of things to seek what they are passionate about.I am sad for our children, my own included.

Agree. The obsession with Maths and English, taking out Art, Music and Drama from curriculum altogether, pushing for academic subject at the expense of non academic qualifications (also not including dune qualifications in the league table meaning students ages only offered certain qualifications that are not always most suitable), taking the GCSE options away from students (some schools chose for students what they need to study), all of these and more really kill the creativity and enjoyment from learning.

I agree with you. I also think that the pressure of exams with no retake option and the emphasis on academic success is hugely contributing to mental health issues among young people

I'm not sure. I hate that people applaud Finland yet don't look closer at the disadvantages the U.K. have to deal with such as a large immigration situation that is just left for teachers to deal with.

Maybe they're just being honest. I don't have any meaning or purpose in my life; I don't think it's that unusual.

I'm really surprised. I'm not questioning that you feel like that. It's just that I'm not sure I'd be bothered to get out of bed in the morning if I didn't think there was any meaning or purpose in my life. I'm not talking about some great purpose that I'm destined to achieve for the goodness of humanity or anything but my family, friends, and even the dog give me a purpose.

I'm not sure. I hate that people applaud Finland yet don't look closer at the disadvantages the U.K. have to deal with such as a large immigration situation that is just left for teachers to deal with.

It's not just Finland, England came 69th out of 72 countries for life satisfaction.

Well, the National Curriculum was devised and then it was decided that the aspiration was for 50% of people to go to university. Added to a rigid focus on data, statistics, scrutiny of all kinds, it’s not surprising that ‘softer’ subjects got squeezed. Also not surprising that the constant scrutiny encourages anxiety. The joy has been sucked out of school. I know lots of people hated school, but I don’t think they felt so anxious about it as they do now. Exams were stressful, of course, but there was far more flexibility otherwise.

I agree, you don't have to have a laid out purpose for your life... but just being trained for exams and being told if you don't achieve academically you have nx to no prospects is wrong.

No wonder so many teens suffer from low self esteem.

Where do they get this information from? Do schools test all children at 14/15?

In Ireland but I'd say we're in the Same boat,had a lovely argument with dh the other day because our eldest wants to do creative subjects in school and he's helped change his mind so he's doing more technical ones.

I had a look into this, 2200 schools worldwide take part, for context, there are just over 4100 secondary schools in the UK. It's done every three years.

^ worldwide = 78 countries.

Where do they get this information from? Do schools test all children at 14/15?

Randomly chosen apparently to reflect all 15 year olds in that country. There's a little video here that explains:
www.oecd.org/pisa/aboutpisa/

Agree. Im a teacher and could cry for the 20% or so of each y11 cohort who are herded through gcse courses, often over 3 years that they stand no chance of getting a decent pass in (5/c or above) and seeing options closed off to them due to either funding or timetable issues.. Eg cant opt for music and drama or art and DT even though its fairly obvious that many kids would like to do both. I also think thay we should have a major major reorganisation so kids can move more fluidly during ks4 to skills based apprenticeships leading to jobs in the public sector.. Housebuilding that all the parties are promising jneeds skilled labour. They do need maths and English but id like to see a gcse option that was tailored for life skills, percentages, areas, volumes, basic numeracy that you need for managing a household budget, understanding why pay day loans are a terrible idea, bank fees etc. Maybe then young people would feel their education was showing them a route they recognise as a possible life.
Im an academic. I teach a pointless (from a practical view) subject. I love it and so do many of the students, but not all. For mqny it is genuinely unrelatable and irrelevant so why should they care or make an effort?

What kind of indoctrination are the other countries doing that all the kids there think that their lives all have a “clear meaning or purpose”?

I’d rather have a country of critical thinkers than one of complacent automatons, but hey-ho.

I don’t think there’s such a great focus on academic achievement in general in British schools. I think there has been a much greater focus in the last 20 years and perhaps parents compare their experience of school to their children’s experience now and in doing so pass on their worries that things are going the wrong way.

Blaming a push for academic achievement is to look for easy answers and the truth is likely to be complicated and multifactorial. I came to the UK from a system that had regular tests and end of term or end of year exams. Our marks would be collated and we would get an overall position either in the class (first, fifth, 14th etc) or in each subject at secondary school. Many secondary schools had entrance exams, certainly all the best ones in academic and social terms.

I’m not saying this is the best system, just that I never saw or heard of the abject unhappiness of so many young people as I often hear of on Mumsnet. I never heard of eating disorders, gender confusion and widespread bullying like I do regularly on Mumsnet. In fact I went through early puberty here in the UK and had such a hard time emotionally with developing breasts but my problems disappeared almost immediately when we returned to the country of my birth.

I think when a country is relatively affluent and children don’t have to worry about food and whether their school fees will be paid this term, they focus on other things. I always felt lucky as a child because of the poverty I could see all around me. So whatever difficulty I had in my life, I still felt overall I had it good. I do think children are a lot more cosseted than we were, and that this has an effect on resilience.

The gap between ‘rich’ and ‘poor’ is also increasing, so there will be children who feel really deprived because they can see how much more other children have materially. They almost can’t avoid seeing, what with Facebook and instagram etc. Social media makes everyone think everyone else is having a better time than they really are, bullying can continue on social media, not be left at the school gates, and if you have a problem you can find a community on social media to reinforce problematic thoughts and behaviours.

Having said all of that, I don’t know what makes the UK so different from other Western European countries where children are happier. I get a sense of people having such a strong need to be a part of a group and when that fails they fall apart quite quickly.

Blaming a push for academic achievement is to look for easy answers and the truth is likely to be complicated and multifactorial.

I agree somewhat. It is more the relentless focus on English and Maths to the detriment of everything else that I see as a major factor (badly worded title).

England are also doing worse in STEM than in previous years so it's not just the arts that are suffering.

What kind of indoctrination are the other countries doing that all the kids there think that their lives all have a “clear meaning or purpose”?

I’d rather have a country of critical thinkers than one of complacent automatons, but hey-ho.

Having clear meaning or purpose in your life robs you of critical thought??

They do need maths and English but id like to see a gcse option that was tailored for life skills, percentages, areas, volumes, basic numeracy that you need for managing a household budget, understanding why pay day loans are a terrible idea, bank fees etc. Maybe then young people would feel their education was showing them a route they recognise as a possible life.

Yes! Functional Skills in English and Maths should be an option for those teens before they have failed GCSE with an E or U and hate the subject.

Having clear meaning or purpose in your life robs you of critical thought??

No. The capacity for critical thought might lead you to question what a “clear meaning or purpose” in your life might actually mean and how realistic it is to attain.

Honestly, I'm amazed that any 15 year olds think they have a clear meaning or purpose in life. I definitely don't think that has anything to do with a push for greater academic success, though. More likely, it seems to me, is the greater use of social media and greater material prosperity. If you have a pretty comfortable life, and yet are endlessly comparing yourself with others, it's hard to have a sense of your own purpose.

The capacity for critical thought might lead you to question what a “clear meaning or purpose” in your life might actually mean and how realistic it is to attain.

Questioning the meaning would not necessarily lead you to a negative answer.

I think it’s also about the way we treat young people in this country . Schools are very large but without the pastoral staff to support this; children are just a number , they are not known individually or valued as individuals . You read it all the time in here ‘ the teacher will teach over 300 pupils you can’t expect her to remember your child’ . We don’t trust them to make even the smallest decisions, many schools don’t even trust them to decide whether they are too hot and need to take their jumper off if FGS .? And heaven forbid that we trust them to go to the loo when hey need to or eat their lunch and socialise in school rather than gobble everything down as quickly as possible for fear that any time left to their own devices will lead to anti social behaviour .

Young people in this country have very little autonomy or control over their own lives , if you look at most of the countries where the children are happier and more fulfilled they have more control over their lives and generally are able to make more decisions for themselves. They are valued for who they are and not just on a set of school results , they are trusted to do jobs , to decide what they wear etc Obviously there needsto be boundaries but in this country we increasingly seem to bully our children into submission with harsh punishments, we assume they are bad or out to break rules unless proven otherwise.

No wonder our young people feel hopeless and browbeaten .

There's a couple of excellent books, very old but relevant, How To Lie WIth Statistics and The Use and Abuse of Statistics.
Tell me what you want to 'prove' and I'l 'prove' it for you,