to be annoyed that we were going to be charged for extra butter?

[NotEnoughTime]

I went out for lunch on Sunday with my DH (a very rare occurence). We went to a restaurant that we have been going to for years. We go there on special occasions ie birthdays, anniversaries etc. It usually costs around £60-70 for lunch for two with no alcoholic drinks.

Anyway, we ordered soup for our started and we were given bread with this. We used the (small amount of) butter and then asked for some more butter. We were then told we could have some more butter but we would be charged a £1 for it! I thought this was very strange. Has anyone else ever been charged extra for butter? The waitress insisted this was common practise but I have never come across it before. I know it was only a £1 but I thought it was very mean.

I have worked in pubs and restaurants - never charged extra for butter and this would have annoyed me too. Even in cafes etc it would annoy me and yours was an expensive lunch can’t understand why they don’t just give you enough and build it into the cost. Would definitely drop them a line and say how disappointed you were.

Entitlement like that which is shown on this thread is the reason so many businesses go under.

"Entitled"? Just for wanting enough butter for the bread roll she had ordered and was paying for, in a nice restaurant? She wasn't asking for the chef's entire stock to build her own personal butter mountain at home!

I'm telling you that it isn't that much from the perspective of someone in catering, not someone with a giant food budget. I can't afford to eat out.

But I do understand how the industry works so if you wanted to listen to that rather than make snarky comments about my maths...

I feel bad for the waitress.

So, £50 then that the restaurant keeps. 70% of that to pay staff, pay rent, keep lights on.
15 quid then I think left for all the ingredients for each course. This is why the pat of butter matters. Nice butter will be parhaps 12p per small pat.

Then you can confirm the mark on coke and lemonade is huge?

If it's the syrup/soda mix.

Has to be as peope drink about 1 or 2 cokes compared to several.pints of beer

listen to that rather than make snarky comments about my maths as your point is about the maths, getting it right seems the least one would expect.

However, I agree margins are tight, that’s why companies go out of business and restaurants are notorious for going bust.

I run a business too. I can tell you keeping clients is the best way to stay in business and things like this are a false economy.

I'd expect it at a chain pub but not for an expensive lunch (which I think this is, even Michelin star places do a 3 course lunch with a drink for 35 quid a head in the week, near me).

And I don't think its harsh to not tip, a tip is an extra not expected- it's not the USA, there is a minimum wage. And in many places tips are shared between all staff (salaried chefs can work 80 hours a week and it can work out less per hour than casual waiting staff who only work when needed).

A tip isn't just a reflection of the particular waiter you had, it's also reflective of the overall experience, for example people would be unlikely to tip if the waitress was great but there was an unreasonable wait for food in the kitchen, or if the overall service was good but the food was awful. I don't think in practice you can separate the service aspect from the rest of the dining experience

Strongly recommend posting a review on trip advisor. They are charging a reasonable amount and you would expect butter to be included.

Why should you get it for free? You wouldn't walk into a shop and demand something for free, so why would you do it in a restaurant?

I expect some things to be included in the price, and a small amount of extra butter would be one of them. Same way in a shop if I bought something fragile I'd expect some form of wrapping. I would hope/ expect a business model to include a little extra for these costs as the alternative, charging per extra bit of butter, puts customers off. It's fine in Greggs, but not so in a better-than-average restaurant.

Why should you get it for free? You wouldn't walk into a shop and demand something for free, so why would you do it in a restaurant?

Yeah! You eat your £70 dry bread and choke it down. sorry you want cutlery??? Wtf?? This is a classy establishment, if you want fancy stuff you have to pay for it! A table? Eat off your lap or get out.

Am I being dumb? What was wrong with the maths? The post itself may have been inaccurate but 20% of 60 is 12, surely

Ok so 12p not £1?

Plus I as an individual can buy 100 prepacked pats for £5.49. So a business can buy for less. Its just tight and if the margins are that low they need to make 96p on a 4p butter pat they’d be better adding 10p to all of their prices and not charging for butter cos it looks much better as a consumer.

Terrible pricing policy and customer service for a proper restaurant to have.

Stealth it’s 20% of £50 base cost to make £60 - 20% tax on £48 makes £57.60 I think. You’re not taking 20% off the total you’re adding it to the base price which changes the results?

Bloody outrageous in a proper sit down restaurant. I'd be cross too. Butter, ketchup etc should be provided and costed into the meal.

I think that’s quite shortsighted of the restaurant as it would put me off returning. Yes it’s only a pound, but a decent restaurant should have provided the correct amount of butter in the first place.

I agree, and also it would put me off going back. People like a reasonable amount of butter, I doubt they're asking for massive quantities.

At the costings of £15 for ingredients and 12p for a naice pat of butter, the butter is 0.8% of the ingredients cost.

Tell me again why a 12p pat of butter is worth losing the £35 towards the cost of overheads?

A small charge of up to 20p for condiments such as butter and sauces is understandable in cheap and cheerful cafés/ take aways where prices are low and profits are by volume of trade rather than a premium quality experience.

£1 for butter is excessive. In a supermarket, you'd get the best part of 100g for that. Utterly disproportionate to the costs of a single serving (and the added labour value of cutting a slice and putting in a dish)

At £60-70, you are in the market for paying for food quality and experience, and being misery about a few grammes of butter marrs that experience. It is a false economy to put repeat customers off with penny pinching.

My pet hate towards the upper end of dining is places that don't make it clear that you have to specifically order the side of vegetables so you sit there like a tit with an inadequate portion of main course because it was too late when the food is served and you realise that none were included.

I’d do a Facebook review and trip advisor and mention the £1 charge and how off putting it was. I’ve often found I’ve been contacted by restaurants after a review and offered a gift card or free dessert next time etc. I think I do balanced fair reviews but would definitely mention something like this.

Omg I'm not the restaurant. I would not have done this. I was trying to explain their motivations to the scandalised.

Most of that 15 will be the two portions of meat for the roast. Depending on meat could easily be 4/5 quid pp. So you're trying to cram everything else into the fiver that's left. So two bowls of soup, the bread and butter you'd already had, all the trimmings for roast, the butter and oil used to cook them, whatever dessert you had.

It's a hard business to make money in that's why so many small restaurants go bust, and are going right now. Pre brexit when no-one is spending money, in November which is the hardest month of the year.

Is November the hardest month of the year? With all the Christmas bookings etc? I didn't know that.

I thought January was hardest month.

As many have mentioned, if you want to stay in business you need happy customers as well as healthy profit margins on your goods.

The business is massively missing a trick here. I'd expect to be charged per condiment in a canteen type set up or supermarket cafe but not at a sit down restaurant where you're paying for table service, condiments and atmosphere as part of the price of the meal.

I worked for the tightest restaurant owners in the area as a teenage waitress but even they had more sense than to charge individually for condiments.

I was out with my parents, we had posh burgers and chips in an upmarket pub. The waiter brought the food and asked if he could get us anything else, as they do. We asked for some mayo for the chips, he brought one of those tiny paper pots with a spoonful in (between three!) then when we looked at the bill after we'd paid, they'd charged us 50p for it!

We won't be going back. Shame, it was good otherwise.

£60 for lunch for two is really not that much when you break it down.

Yes it bloody is!

It's almost as bad as being charged for extra hot water to add to your teapot. This used to be standard - a pot of tea with a pot of hot water. Now you have to ask. And sometimes they want you to pay.

And sometimes - and this is the WORST! - you get a fucking cup of hot water with the teabag on the saucer beside it instead of tea in a pot! (I'm looking at you, Italian restaurants . . . )

Blasphemy!

Is November the hardest month of the year? With all the Christmas bookings etc? I didn't know that.

I thought January was hardest month.

I always thought April. But I'm basing not so much on running a restaurant as reading TS Elliot

Ok, I'll get my (pretentious) coat ...