AIBU to think that saving the planet is more important than Brexit?

[nellodee]

We're reaching tipping points all over the place, insect populations are in fatal decline, we're widely believed to be well into the sixth mass extinction event and this term of government may be our last chance as a nation to meaningfully take preventative action to save life on this planet.

So am I unreasonable to be frustrated by the lack of focus and interest in environmental issues in this election?

I think we are best placed to save the environment within europe so i dont see it as a seperate issue.

People will still be buying fuckloads of plastic toys and other crap from the pound shops for their kids and family members. It won't change, people are too materialistic and greedy and don't give a fuck. They will only care when in 10-20 years time there is mass migration on an unimaginable scale and with that, civil unrest and food/water shortages. I still can't get my head around the fact people know this but are still churning out kids. Their lives will be fucking horrific and they will suffer terribly.

Can you explain how voting for the Green party is essentially a vote for the Conservatives?

I fucking hate Jeremy Corbyn. I equally fucking hate Boris Johnson. Neither of them are viable options for me so please do explain how a vote for the Green Party is a vote for conservative?

Is it because it takes away a vote for Labour?

Have you ever wondered what caused mass extinctions one (440 years ago), two (350m) three (252m) four (200m) and five (66m)? Because it wasn't human beings, the previous five were before we existed so why do you assume the sixth will be any different?

If we leave the EU there will be less 'bloc pressure' working on us to ensure we keep trying to reduce carbon emissions.

Where did you get this idea? The UK's has cut its carbon emissions faster than any other developed nation, including the ones you suggest might shame us into action. More likely the EU overall environmental progress stats are going to look pretty shite after the UK leaves - there are a lot of EU nations that are missing their targets by about a million miles.

This notion that the EU keeps the UK civilised is so tedious.

To the point at hand - yes, the environment is, in an overarching sense, the most important issue of the day. This does not mean that politicians can drop everything else.

We need to be on a war footing over this:
Yes, time to start carpet-bombing coal fired power stations in China.

Quite right Hinge.

There's really no point in completely destroying the UK economy to meet Co2 targets. Do you understand that the UK's impact is completely dwarfed by China, India and the US?

In this recent YouGov poll - 68% of people thought Brexit was one of the three most important issues facing the country at this time and 25% of people picked the environment;

yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2019/11/07/which-issues-will-decide-general-election

With regard to Brexit, wouldn’t reducing freedom of movement also reduce carbon emissions though?

I was born & raised in London but I’m now working in an EU country. Since moving, my flight usage has increased immensely as I now travel back “home” for things like weddings, christenings, important birthdays, family sickness, funerals, Christmas etc.

This year alone, I have made 9 round trips = 18 flights. If I was still living in London - where my family & friends are - I would have taken 0 flights. To add to this, several friends & family members have also flown over to visit me (flights they never would have taken but for the fact I live abroad).

I’m currently in a major city with lots of people from all over Europe & people travelling back to their home countries for important occasions like I’ve been doing is pretty typical because not only are flights across Europe cheap but they’re short too so travelling for a Saturday wedding doesn’t require annual leave etc.

I’m pro EU but logically speaking, I know freedom of movement does increase flight usage so I’m definitely struggling to reconcile being a remainer with being green.

Its not just being part of Europe that makes me want to stay in the EU. It's the alternative, which is sucking up to Trump. That man, and Bolsonaro, are atrocious. They are actively making the situation worse and worse.

it’s a 100% probability of Labour screwing up the economy

And the same for the Tories, who will also screw up the environment.

I'll vote Libdem but if Iived in a Tory/Labour marginal, Labour every time.

freedom of movement does increase flight usage

I think you are right. But are you also suggesting that we need to stop people travelling overseas on holiday too? I suspect the numbers flying for short-term holidays are higher than those travelling as a result of FOM.

But are you also suggesting that we need to stop people travelling overseas on holiday too?

No I’m actually not suggesting anything.

This thread is in relation to the environment & Brexit so I’m just pointing out that reducing freedom of movement may also reduce carbon emissions as well - so an unintended benefit for climate change.

I suspect the numbers flying for short-term holidays are higher than those travelling as a result of FOM

Agreed but no matter how small or large the increase, it’s still an increase.

Like I said in my PP, I’m having a tough time reconciling being pro FOM with being green as I know it has an impact.

Yeah - and EU facilitates shite like this -
www.theguardian.com/business/2017/mar/03/brexit-uk-car-industry-mini-britain-eu as well as -
www.euronews.com/2019/05/20/eu-parliament-s-114m-a-year-move-to-strasbourg-a-waste-of-money-but-will-it-ever-be-scrapp
(11,000 and 19,000 tonnes of CO2 emissions a year.

If Brexit happens and we manage to get trade deals with the likes of Australia/ America/ China etc Hinge, it involves a lot more air miles and CO2 emissions then what we have now!

YANBU OP, and all this 'we'll plant more trees' isn't enough, particularly given the amount of felling happening due to Ash die-back etc..

YANBU but it's much easier to fart out a brexit no matter how awful than it is to actually make meaningful changes to the core behaviours of us lazy, inert modern people, so don't hold your breath

I think what Corbyn was saying in the interview on the environment is right - it's currently cheaper to fly to other cities in Europe than take the train, and that should change. That would help to mitigate the FoM / increased flights issue. Admittedly, it would take a good chunk longer to get around, but trains are quite pleasant places to get a bit of work done, if you have a seat and a laptop.

If Brexit happens and we manage to get trade deals with the likes of Australia/ America/ China etc Hinge, it involves a lot more air miles and CO2 emissions then what we have now!

It is inconceivable that, whatever Brexit holds for the UK and the continent, we would not carry on trading with the EU. They want to trade with us; we want to trade with them.

Maybe because many people feel that they can't do anything about the environment (can't really go and shut down foreign coal industry, can we) BUT they can vote. The vote can make an actual difference. Walking to work once a week doesn't, except health...

Shame older generations ignored the warnings for last 30+ years...

it's currently cheaper to fly to other cities in Europe than take the train, and that should change.
Agreed.

www.google.com/amp/s/www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/06/30/student-flies-london-via-spain-cheaper-train/amp/

www.google.com/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/student-flies-london-edinburgh-cheap-flight-via-poland-berlin-return-train-ticket-same-price-rail-a8029276.html%3famp

If Brexit happens and we manage to get trade deals with the likes of Australia/ America/ China etc Hinge, it involves a lot more air miles and CO2 emissions then what we have now!
I'd like to see your working out in this please.

I used to work for a US company with offices in Dublin and London. It was always much much cheaper, quicker and more convenient for me to fly to Dublin than get the train to London.