My daughter is taking things.

[cantcope12345]

Re-posted from chat for traffic.

We have removed all tech, stopped all extra curricular activities except cadets, stopped pocket money until she pays people back...
what more can we do?
She has taken her siblings pocket and birthday money, her other sisters clothes, jewellery, she hoards food and has taken an item from a person at school.
Her gp has suggested Dissasociative Disorder due to the stealing, lying and occasionally claiming she has no memory of the behaviour. so school haven't suspended her under the equality act.
What more can we do? We have counselling scheduled. Please can anyone suggest any consequences? She has been spoken to by a police officer but to no avail .....
She is 13.

That sounds so difficult, and like you are responding very appropriately. The only thing I can suggest is to reward any positive behaviour, however small. And try to give her attention other than just when she does something wrong.

I hope you find a way to get through to her

Does she keep the items or sell them/ trade them? Could it be drug related or is she being bullied and giving them to somebody else? Has she been referred to the CAMHS team for assessment and support with her mental health? Sounds like a really tough time for you both

Has she told you why she does it? What is she doing with the items she takes? Getting to the bottom of why she is doing it is probably the first step, but in the meantime I can imagine how stressful it is.

What is she doing with the money and items? How does she react when confronted? Has she any other behavioural issues or red flags?

Sounds awful and stressful for everyone involved

Have you talked with her and listened to her? And I mean listen don't just talk at her.

Taking things is as symptom of something else, you need to sort the 'something'.

Does she feel she is treated badly? And by that I don't mean is she treated unfairly but does she perceive it that way?

Reward any positive behaviour, however small. And try to give her attention other than just when she does something wrong
Thank you, that's a sensible idea - currently we can't see the wood for the trees.

Does she keep the items or sell them/ trade them?
She spends the money on sweets and drinks
Could it be drug related
No other drug related behaviours
or is she being bullied and giving them to somebody else?
This has happened in the past but nothing according to her or school.
Has she been referred to the CAMHS team for assessment and support with her mental health?
CAMHS discharged her in April, we have counselling scheduled with Action for Children.

Has she told you why she does it?
No, she can't or won't. All she keeps saying is that she doesn't know why.
What is she doing with the items she takes?
She keeps them.

What is she doing with the money and items?
She spends the money on sweets and drinks and keeps the items until they are found.
How does she react when confronted?
She either sits there "hard faced" or cries.
Has she any other behavioural issues or red flags?
Just the lying and has always had a temper in which she destroys her own things - her teddy, I pad and mirror are just three examples.

Have you talked with her and listened to her? And I mean listen don't just talk at her.*
*
We have tried so hard, as have other family members.

Does she feel she is treated badly? And by that I don't mean is she treated unfairly but does she perceive it that way?
^
I think so but we can't seem to convince her she is treated much better than some people- she has always had everything she wants or needs. We spend time with her, take her on outings and support her in everything.^

Thank you all for your thoughts, sorry for the way I've replied it's the only way I can manage to answer / address everyone!

My DN does this and is diagnosed with ASD and ADHD

I used to do this when i was younger and in adulthood have been diagnosed with severe depression and Borderline Personality Disorder. I think my behaviour was partly due to lack of impulse control (a BPD trait) low self esteem and childhood (emotional) neglect.

The councelling should help her, but only if it is a good match for her. Let her know that if it isn't a good match for her there are other options - other therapists and other therapies. If she doesn't know why she's doing it a talking therapy may not be the right approach, and maybe an art/play based therapy may be better for her. The BPS lists certified therapists by region. I know play therapy sounds like it's for little children but it can be very effective for older children and good therapist will be able to pitch it correctly.

I did that at that age, and for a couple of years after that. I am now 35 years old and I still don't know why I did it. I'm sorry if that doesn't help as an explanation but hopefully it gives you hope that it could be a phase she'll grow out of!

I think hormones just exploded and drove me a bit crazy for a few years. I had huge patches of memory loss too, like I'd been acting without thinking at all.

My mum says I was like a different person during my teenage years. But I went back to being lovely afterwards. Her constant love and support and gentle reminding of right and wrong meant the world to me at such a confusing time.

Thank you. I suggested BPD and that's when the gp suggested DID. Any suggestions for how we deal with the stealing in the short term? Her dad wants to give her coal for Christmas and is only half joking ....

I'm a mental health nurse so might be able to advise.
It is highly unlikely to be due to DID, this is pretty unusual and is usually an extreme reaction to trauma in childhood.

Borderline Personality Disorder (or EUPD as it's called these days) normally would be diagnosed in late teens/early twenties and you would need to see if your daughter has other signs of this, other than stealing.
Has she been through something traumatic? Does she self harm, or take overdoses? Is she highly emotional and lashes out?

I wonder if it's related to bullying, stress, hormones. Being a teenage girl can be very overwhelming. It may not be helpful to look for a label, as she is so young.
CAMHS should be able to give her support and flag up if they do have any concerns?
Hope this helps. Good luck 😊

just as an aside, i’ll stick with BPD, thanks. EUPD makes it sound like hysterical acting out, when in fact BPD is hell to live with. not many agencies have taken up EUPD as an alternative ‘label’ (and by this i mean our local CCG, down through secondary services and into primary care, and MIND is also sticking with BPD) and i think that’s a good thing.

would you like your diagnosis to contain the words ‘emotionally unstable’? thought not.

additionally, no diagnosis of any personality disorder is made under the age of 18, so speculation about DID or BPD is pointless at this stage.

sorry for the derail, OP, but these are important points. if CAMHS have discharged your DD, i hope the counselling helps her.

Dd2 was diagnosed with adhd when she turned 18 and could access adult mental health. Impulsiveness is one of the issues. She would steal money and help herself to literally anything that she wanted. She has learned to control it and recognise it for what it is.

My son also has adhd and used to steal things without any guilt/remorse. I would push to have adhd considered. Please remember that this is not your fault. I did a lot of asking what I could have done better before realising that I tried my best and it wasn't down to my parenting!!

She was tested for ADHD a few years ago and we were told she doesn't have it.
She is very emotional and we had a double trauma of my breast cancer and her epilepsy early 2018.
I'm afraid I've just shouted at her - she's been refusing to go to bed and her sister has just found her with her iPad ..... I am in tears , I don't know what to do but she is taking things every couple of days.....

I did practical stuff.
Door lock and lock box for other dd to keep her stuff separate. Put all cash out of reach. I spent teenage years thinking dd2 was amoral but that was far from the truth.

Could she have ptsd and be crying out for attention?
My daughter has ptsd after witnessing something traumatic with me when she was younger. My daughter now behaves badly, ruins her toys, draws on walls and blames her friends, runs away from us if we say No to her. She panics a lot and if she can't see me she cries and shakes.
Maybe your daughter is doing these things as a way of getting attention.
It sounds like a cry for help to me.

I know you say no evidence of bullying but as she's been there before I'd suggest it is. When I was at primary I was bullied to bring money in for another girl to buy sweets, we (who gave her the money ) were allowed the odd sweet in return, but if we told on her, we would be in bother.

She was diagnosed with epilepsy last year? Is she on medication? Some meds can have really awful side effects- just look at 'keppra rage' and she must feel so out of control and anxious about it. And then the worry of you having cancer- major insecurity and panic right there. Is she buying sweets to buy friends?