A driver who smashed into me has lied to insurance and said I caused the accident. What now?

[GunpowderGelatine]

A few months ago on the roundabout near my house, a car went into the side of my car. I was in the right lane going right on the roundabout (exiting at 3 o'clock point) and they were going to the 1st exit (11 o clock point). They did what LOADS of drivers on that same roundabout do - rather than sticking to the lanes they travel to the exit in a straight line, which means they end up in the right lane for a few seconds. This happens about 3 times a week to me on the roundabout, they aren't looking to see if someone is slightly behind them in the right lane so cut across. Because turning the steering wheel for 2 seconds is clearly too much like hard work. Anyway, I have near misses all the time, and this time the back right side of their car crashed into the front left side of mine.

I got their insurance details (though they were cagey about giving a name and we're very indignant about the whole thing) and I put in a claim which has rattled on a bit, paid £150 excess for car repair.

Anyway my insurance have come back and said that I was the one who swerved into their lane and crashed into them!!! fucking lying bastards. I'm furious. Insurance want me to claim 50/50 liability. Which means I only get 50% excess back and my no claims is reduced by 3 years!! I have said no way, it wasn't my fault and they are committing insurance fraud by lying.

I explained that the damage to the areas of the car show they obviously didn't see me (because they weren't looking when they served into my lane) and their back crashed into my front. If it had been me going into them then surely I'd have crashed on purpose as I'd have seen them clear as day?! Also why would I be travelling home in the correct lane and randomly swerve into the wrong lane?!

Anyway insurance have said because there's no CCTV, witnesses or dashcam footage (I have one but my charge point was broken 😫) it's my word against there's and an independent judge would automatically rule 50/50 liability

I'm raging. I also think that's bullshit about the judge. Surely every case without CCTV before dash cams wasn't settled 50/50?!

Any advice on what I can do now? Insurance pressuring me to settle 50/50 but honestly I think they're trying to avoid work for themselves. I refuse to admit it was half my fault and can live without the excess for now. I have heir number and feel like calling them to ask why they're lying bastards (I won't). Why would someone not just do the right thing?!

This happens to me all the time and it drives me insane. I would absolutely refuse to accept 50/50. He swerved into your lane because he couldn't be bothered to steer the curve. It's called taking a racing line through a roundabout.

Trouble is, the insurance companies can't be arsed to quibble in (relatively) low-cost cases like this. They just want the whole stuff ticked as dealt with.
A friend of mine had someone skid and career into the back of them in snow. She thought it couldn't be more clear-cut, until the insurance company told her the culprits were claiming that my friend had skidded backwards, uphill from stationary, into them!! The insurance said 50:50!! She was livid!!

Ignore my last post, I see things moved on while I was typing and all is now clear.
I would say that if you know people tend to not keep in the left hand lane it would be sensible to drive defensively and be aware of the possibility of being cut up. But if someone drives across you as has been described, it is entirely their fault.

I would accept 50:50, you have no camera and no witnesses

As my driving instructor would say 'anything less that 12 o'clock stick to the pizza crust' other driver was totally at fault!

You can refuse and it will go to court.
Something similar happened to me even though there was a 50/50 offer on the table.

Guy in a 4x4 pulled out across me at traffic lights. I went into his rear passenger door.
Turned out he was trying to pull insurance fraud claimed £35k for "car rental costs" and refused to accept 50/50. Insisted it went to court but took the settlement the day before the court case.
If you think you have a good story stick to your guns - likely they will bail out before it ends up in court. I'm still hacked off I let them keep the 50/50 offer on the table but was 8months pregnant and couldn't be arsed with any more of a fight.

So if someone pulled out on you at a junction, resulting in you going into them, it would be your fault??

If you could have avoided a collision - yes.

There is a ladder of outcomes, but the very very first rung is that all parties are driving so as to avoid any collision. If a collision is unavoidable (and not just because you think you have right of way so bad luck anyone else) then it's the liability dance.

There's also the added fun that failing to avoid a collision that was avoidable can stray into careless, reckless or even dangerous driving.

If someone does pull out, and you had no time to brake and did go up their rear, then it could fall out to be their fault (and with witnesses or dashcam footage you might win the case). However, there's also a presumption that you are paying attention, and keeping an eye out on side roads for that car which might "try it on" ... (although usually it's simply they forgot to look right again after checking left ...)

Personally my dashcam is 2-way and captures the rear as well, for added fun.

@GunpowderGelatine, I work in this field. The insurers are right and the majority of roundabout claims are settled in a split liability basis where there is no supportive independent evidence. It is simply not economic to take a case like this to Court.
You could obtain good quality clear views showing both parties approaches to the roundabout and the lane markings on the roundabout- if it's common practice, it would help to show another driver doing what you allege the Third Party did. However, be prepared for them to still settle 50/50.
For future, always protect your No Claims Discount.

Im guessing the TP says you swerved into their lane. Damage areas consistent with both versions of events. Why should the judge assumed youre telling the truth and hes lying? I take it you dont have a photo of him clearly over the line into your lane? Also have you double checked road markings and signage? Google Earths helps. Number of people who think the road is marked one way but it actually is marked up differently.

Hmmmm I’ve got to ask- I protect my no claims but my premium still went up with all insurers following an accident that was my fault this year- so what’s the point in protecting it?

It’s utter shit OP but I think this is really common unfortunately. A guy in a truck cut right across my lane a few years back and damaged the entire left-hand side of my car. There was over £4k worth of damage. He blatantly just hadn’t checked his mirrors and thought the lane was clear. It dragged on for months but because there were no independent witnesses I had to take 50:50 in the end. I was absolutely seething and it’s awful when it’s not your fault. Hope things work out better for you than they did me!

I’ve never paid an excess though, although tbf I think that’s because the other party has always admitted liability immediately and in the case when I caused the accident, I had no claim for damage to my car

OP I would try and push this further with insurance. I had a very similar situation on an island except I was in the left hand lane of two. They were in the other lane and swerved into me.

They claimed the accident had negatively impacted their life. Came up with ridiculous private doctor’s notes saying they couldn’t put their socks on unaided. It was a slight side on side collision! They even claimed they had a witness who had spoken to me after the accident.

All lies! I was incensed and luckily my insurance company were happy to fight it. They came back with a number of offers to accept 50:50 etc but I refused. It went to court and the judge found in my favour!

It can happen. This was about 5 years ago now.

Yes as part of my claim I sent it all on Google Maps as advised by my insurers. They were going first exit, I was going home to 2nd exit, there's no disputing they should have been in the right hand lane!

*Left hand lane 🤦🏼‍♀️ I can't bloody think straight

Whether it is economic or not (for whom? The insurers) I would take them to court. I wouldn't accept 50/50 on the principle that if everyone did that, despite being innocent, the world would be in a right mess.

But then I learned my lesson early with vehicle insurance, was in an accident where the other party was at fault, insurance said 50/50 but a quick letter to the tune of "I'd rather take it to court and pay ten times the fees than let that lying shit off" sorted it out. Suddenly it was 100% the other party's fault? Scumbag driver that crashed into us had given up the fight at the whiff of someone who'd not lay down quietly. Fuck him. Said it had been the 2nd crash he'd caused that year. Maybe my push back encouraged him to be a bit more careful.

I was being pressured into going 50/50. I had my three children with me as witnesses. I stuck to my guns even when a court date was given. Incidentally, I understand that this is a discussion around a table, not an actual court scene. The day before the court date the other side admitted liability.

I think 50/50 decisions happen more frequently these days. Often both sides’ insurances are owned by the same company. Easier I suppose. It happened to my son when he says he was in the right. He got an email informing him of the decision and asking him to reply if he did not agree. He rarely checks his emails so it was too late to object. Probably would have happened anyway.

I don’t know if it’s different as I am in Scotland and slightly different circumstances however a driver in front of us deliberately braked and made my DH hit the back of the car. By chance police were passing but damage to both cars looked minimal so was just going to pay to repair mine out with insurance. On closer inspection there was actually over £2000 worth of damage under the bonnet.

I told insurance what had happened and they said I would be at fault until proven otherwise but it got taken to court as I provided insurance with statement I gave to police etc (I can’t remember how we got it to court, potentially because of passing police however they didn’t see the accident). Court found him guilty of the accident and he was then fully responsible for costs through his insurance.

Long process but got there in the end and worth it!

Whether it is economic or not (for whom? The insurers) I would take them to court
Then you have no idea of how insurance works - go and look up subrogation rights and then come back and tell us how we can take it to court.

Honestly, OP, all the folk on here saying don't lie down etc are well meaning but mostly ignorant of the facts. It is very annoying but it's reality.

I had similar experience. Insurance insisted I take 50/50. I refused and it eventually went to court after 2 years. Even on the morning my solicitor kept advising 50/50. Luckily we had a common sense judge who agreed with me.

We took satellite photos of the roundabout and I also went back to the roundabout and photographed other drivers cutting over into the other lane, so I could easily show the judge what I was trying to describe. Good luck!

That's annoying. It wasn't your fault and there's nowhere for you to go when someone veers into you on a roundabout so you couldn't really have taken evasive action.

There's not much you can do about the insurance since they've denied liability, there are no corroborating photos or videos and you've no witnesses. It's very frustrating.

If the other driver admitted liability to an insurer then you stand a chance, otherwise I'm afraid you don't. This is why you should always take photos of an accident scene if you can.

I was in an accident that was witnessed but the witness later said they only heard it, didnt see it and the other driver said there hadnt even been an accident. I refused to accept 50/50, and eventually their insurers gave up. Now I would stop the car and take photos even with a witness.

YANBU and the other driver is being a total git.

That said, if you're moving more slowly than the car in the left hand lane and know that people have a tendency to do this, you really should have been watching them and prepared to beep and brake, or letting them draw ahead so as to avoid being next to them. Still their fault, but, as my driving instructor taught me, 'Everyone else on the road is an idiot.' Treat them accordingly and give a wide berth.

I'm with the OP here, the other driver was in the lane adjacent to her, it's normal on a 2 lane roundabout that cars will be side by side! You don't have to drive a suitable distance behind a car in a different lane! It's clear the other driver crossed lanes without checking the right lane was clear and collided with the OP.
I'm in a similar situation, I was stationary at a junction to enter onto a roundabout in the left lane, a van driver ploughed into drivers side of me as he approached the roundabout in the right hand lane, either he was looking ahead at the roundabout to see if he could drive straight on or just didn't move far enough to the right when the lanes split. Anyway he has lied and said we were on the roundabout and I did what the other driver did to the OP, lying bastard. However my insurance are confident that the damage to my car is consistent with my truthful version of events. So, it's gone to Solicitors, the other drivers insurance then offered 50/50, I rejected it. We have now sent it to court, they will get a court summons in the next week or so, so we'll see what happens then. It's taken 6 months so far.
One thing I can't stand is liars, I don't care how long it takes to see if he's willing to lie in court.
Stand your ground OP, these people rely on people like us giving up the fight.

I like the suggestion earlier Upthread of putting a shout-out on a local FB page, with details of the offenders car (but not their name?).....the offender might back-off if they see you getting a lot of support?