To really loathe the phrase "women can't have it all" and want it banned

[thepeopleversuswork]

I hate it for so many reasons:

a) the obvious reason, that no-one ever tells men they "can't have it all". They do often have it all, or the good bits of it all at least, and nobody bats an eyelid or suggests they are failing either their employer or their children (or both), a charge which is routinely leveled at working women with children.

b) the less obvious but more pertinent (to me) reason, that in many cases women have to have it all because there's no other sod around to do it. This was prompted by another thread about how single mums work. Well, the short answer is, in the vast majority of cases, because they have to. I know that in a number of cases its not possible and I don't want to minimise this, but there's still this underlying assumption (which pops up on here among other places) that "career women" are doing it because they want to be a feminist, or because they want a nice car or a flash postcode or some other such bollocks. The vast majority of working women have to work and shouldn't be made to feel that they are failing their children because they provide for them.

c) there's often a really reproachful tone when people use this phrase, as if women who work and have kids (and sometimes, whisper it, other things in their lives like hobbies, volunteering and social lives) are being utterly selfish and putting their children too far down the list of priorities. It assumes that any woman who has any priorities at all in her life aside from her children is selfish.

A friend of mine who is otherwise progressive, tough and sensible used this phrase the other day. She is struggling for many reasons at the moment and may have just been having a bad day but it really brought me up short.

The more we use this get out of jail clause, the less we think about the underlying societal reasons why women don't get the support they need to live their lives and bring their children up properly, and the less we campaign for the equality which not only we -- but the whole of society needs.

I read something recently that really resonated. The phrase 'women can have it all' has to have been penned by a man so women DO it all.

Not just you, I hate it too for all the reasons you outline.

Someone will be along in a moment to argue it's just meant in some gender neutral "you can't have the moon on a stick" sort of way, but in my experience the phrase is never used that way - it's always aimed at women, not at men who are allowed career, family and time consuming hobby (cycling/Sunday league football/regular night out with the lads down the pub).

The thing is, the ‘having it all’ that we talk about when we talk about men is very different to the ‘having it all’ that people mean when they talk about women. A man is considered to ‘have it all’ if he has a woman (or group of women) caring for his children while he works. A woman isn’t considered to ‘have it all’ if the same is true for her. She is considered to be missing out on hands-on care of her own children in a way that isn’t true for men (or isn’t considered to be).

So you can look at it in one of a number of ways.

I don’t think anyone can have it all, regardless of if they have a vagina or penis to be honest.

There will always have to be a sacrifice somewhere.

Like for example you have a job that pays £££ that rarely comes without long hours, lots of stress you can’t do that and parent a dc so the child ends up with a nanny, in every after school club under the sun. Family life is sacrificed for the nice house 🤷🏻‍♀️

A single person working in a job again often earning £££ comes at the cost of mental health due to stress.

Me I’m married DH works in law, I own a business and have a few properties that get rented out. We have 3 dc we won’t ever leave with a nanny/nursery and we are always having to make a sacrifice for something nobody can “have it all”

Try and have it all, you will just run yourself on to the ground.

Actually I know men you say it too. It is obviously physically impossible to have a high powered pressure job and spend hours with your children.

In the real world no one can have it all. Men included. Life is a series of choices decisions and compromises. We can shape our life to an extent.
I see where you are coming from but widen your thinking and look at a mans life which is also not perfect. Just different

I think that when you become a parent something has got to give and parents can't have it all, men can't have the amazing careers, work all of the hours, do the time consuming hobbies, social life and have a good family life either. I think I must live on a different planet to you op. The overwhelming majority of mothers work, working is normal now isn't it? Out of all of my friends, my family, all of the women I've met at groups etc I only know 5 SAHP, including me.

Confusedbeetle InDubiousBattle I think you're missing the point a bit though... of course something has to give when you're a parent, and its not saying that men's lives are perfect and women's aren't It's about the gendered nature of the phrase "you can't have it all" and the way it lets society off the hook for confronting the real imbalances.

The phrase takes as its starting point the assumption that you are greedily trying to do everything just for shits and giggles. When in fact most people are just desperately trying to cope.

I actually think many men miss out hugely on a bond and joy with their children they don't know they could have. I don't feel envious of men carrying on their lives exactly as they did pre-DC, I pity them and their blindness. My life is a juggle, but I prefer it to theirs (and it contains hobbies, socialising and personal aspiration as well as career and family life).

I agree with you about that stupid phrase though.

i think the problem is the definition of "it all". A career means different things to different people, a job, a path in industry, a leader, education etc. and motherhood has so many different societal specifications, from how you conceive, how you deliver your baby, how you feed your baby, how you feed your toddler, how much screen time etc.

There was a thread last night about a women who on the face of it had everything, three healthy children, breast feeding, environmentally conscious with cloth nappies and she is self employed growing her own business. However she's at breaking point and I'd imagine if asked she'd say she doesn't have it all.

Ok after your update; you can't have it all.... and men have the careers so back into the kitchen pet. But also I think men are better at accepting its this or that, that they don't have to prove themselves worthy of existing.

I'm super happy to be told otherwise but I don't often hear about stay at home dads who are also trying to have a career, almost apologetically without interfering with the bread winning partner.

Agree with Churchandstate.

It's only directed to woman because their "all" isn't usually achievable (good, progressive career with plenty of time free to raise the children). Men's "all" is often different and much more mainstream and achievable.

I don't mind the phrase because I believe it to be true, unfortunately.

My mum often says to me women CAN have it all... just not at once. And she’s right. I often remember that when I hear this phrase, it limits us before we’ve even started.

I don't mind the phrase because I believe it to be true, unfortunately.

It can only be true if all men and all women want the same things.

Surveys consistently show that younger and Millennial men want to be involved in the raising of their children, and are much more inclined to go PT/take extended SPL/make career compromises than men were in the past.

Its a horrible phrase, but how would you ban it?

Yes I totally agree with you OP.

I have no issue with "you can't have it all". I can even see the argument for saying "parents can't have it all". But "women can't have it all" is such an irritating phrase for all the reasons you've outlined.

Nameless this is true and obviously "having it all" can be code for "being run absolutely ragged and having to work your bollocks off to make ends meet. Which is not really having it all at all.

But again, its not really the concept its the *phrase" which bothers me -- it seems so reproachful and to be blaming people's desire to get on with their lives on some delusion of feminist grandeur.

I don't agree with your interpretation and actually quite like the phrase as I think it works to alleviate the guilt that many women feel about their choices. Whether you like it or not, societal expectations of women are different than men and lots of women will have internalised this and hold completely unrealistic expectations of themselves. So many women I know feel guilt, guilt about working too much, guilt about not working enough, guilt that they can't do everything at the same time to as high of a standard as those people that focus on one specific thing.

Men (fathers) aren't subject to the same scrutiny and expectations as women(mothers) hence the phrase isn't so relevant to them. Society has shifted to expect women to have careers but norms around mothers being the primary caregivers have not shifted in the same way.

I'm not sure I agree with your interpretation. I think noone points out to men that they can't have it all, because most men aren't trying to have it all. Now, they might have all that they want, but that doesn't mean they have it all.

We can't have it all, we DO it all though

I agree with Orange's mum. Women can indeed have it all - just not at the same time. Much more positive phrasing.

I had an amazing full time job in broadcasting, once I got married and had kids, I initially went part time but that didn't work for me. It felt like the worst of both worlds. I went freelance to work around the kids - still using my skills but in a more flexible way. I miss the office banter and having proper colleagues but it works best for my family.

Once kids are older, I'll focus more on work/business. Been a bit hairy financially at times but we manage.

I agree OP

When people say you cant have it all they generally mean women cant have it all ie have a career and a family. I always reply 'like men do?'

I think the reality is no one can 'have it all' but when both parents make equal sacrifices eg flexible working and sharing kids appointments and house stuff etc then everyone in the family can come fairly close.

I dont know if I'm missing the point

Men never tried to have it all, as far as I can see, they've been happy being the workers and leaving the upbringing of children mostly to women. Women tried to have it all, the 40+ hour working weeks while maintaining the same level of quality upbringing for their children which is ot possible. Men dont try and fit it all into the day but some women do and then (I dont mean this horribly) they fail. No one can have it all

I think it's differing views of what "it all" is.

I've definitely got it all. But that's because my "all" are the result of decisions that I have made a refuse to feel guilty about.

"It All" also defines itself as kids, career, hobbies, social life, marriage without looking at nuances that come with each of those.

Some women don't even want a career, some don't want kids, some don't care for n active social life.

But ultimately you can "have it all" if you know what your all is and are willing to juggle it.

It's a fucking shit phrase though and seems to be used equally as a stick to keep women in their place, and a sympathetic condescending pat on the shoulder.

YANBU it's a stupid phrase.

I have it all because I don't work/ don't want to.
Have a brilliant marriage, happy kids (soe grown up)
Freedom to come and go as I please.
Not accountable to anyone and satisfied with my life.

Having a job, kids in childcare, circus act of juggling, never seeing my dh, little family time, stress, monotony of everyday being the same, alarm clocks, is not having it all, it's a bloody awful life to have.