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To think this is an inappropriate passage of the Bible for a school Christmas service?

262 replies

RevolutionofOurTime · 26/11/2019 14:59

DD10 has been asked to do a reading at the school’s Xmas carol service.

The passage is Genesis 3: 8-15:

“And they heard the sound of the Lord God walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the Lord God among the trees of the garden. Then the Lord God called to Adam and said to him, "Where are you?" So he said, "I heard your voice in the garden, and I was afraid because I was naked and I hid myself."

And he said, "Who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten from the tree of which I commanded you that you should not eat?" Then the man said, "The woman whom you gave to be with me, she gave me of the tree, and I ate."

And the Lord God said to the woman, "What is this you have done?"
The woman said, "The serpent deceived me, and I ate." So the Lord God said to the serpent: "Because you have done this, you are cursed more than all cattle and more than every beast of the field. On your belly you shall go and you shall eat dust all the days of your life. And I will put enmity between you and the woman and between your seed and her seed. He shall bruise your head, and you shall bruise his heel." “

I’m not impressed. Surely they could have chosen other (NT) passages where the focus is not on original sin (and don’t blame a woman for it 🧐)?

I’m an atheist, but was raised a Catholic and I have no objection to DD taking part in the service. I have been to countless midnight masses (Xmas services where I’m from) and I’m sure the Genesis was never the focus.

IABU to think this is not appropriate for a Christmas service?

OP posts:
LiveFatsDieYoGnu · 26/11/2019 15:03

Pretty sure that's the standard first reading for the nine lessons and carols service.

churchandstate · 26/11/2019 15:04

This is a Catholic school? You can’t reasonably ask a Catholic school to ignore original sin. Not sure why you think it’s less appropriate at Christmas than at any other time? Without original sin, no Christmas. Simple as that.

Nowisthemonthofmaying · 26/11/2019 15:04

It definitely isn't the standard for the nine lessons!

I'd be a bit put out as well, didn't seem to have much to do with Christmas to me

Nowisthemonthofmaying · 26/11/2019 15:05

But if it's a Catholic school then that's what you get

easyandy101 · 26/11/2019 15:05


JennyK76 · 26/11/2019 15:06

I was also raised Catholic and I find it a very weird choice for kids at Christmas. I would defo ask why that has been chosen over others when it obviously has some woman-hating overtones.

EdithWeston · 26/11/2019 15:07

The 9 lessons and carols is a very popular and well-known service.

I think it's OK for schools to use it

LadyMacbethWasMisunderstood · 26/11/2019 15:08

It most certainly is the first of the lessons in the 9 lessons and Carols. It is a very classic format for a carol service. It is entirely appropriate for a traditional Christmas service. The issue is whether you wish your child to attend such a service.

churchandstate · 26/11/2019 15:08

when it obviously has some woman-hating overtones.

Catholics - which I assume the people running the service are - believe that the serpent deceived Eve first. It’s not woman hating. If you want to critique it from a modern standpoint, feel free, but if you’re participating in the service as a Catholic then that’s what you’re signing up to.

araiwa · 26/11/2019 15:08

You are joking?

Katinthedoghouse · 26/11/2019 15:10
LiveFatsDieYoGnu · 26/11/2019 15:10

Genesis 3, 8-15, 17-19was the first reading at the King's nine lessons and carols last year - I can't be arsed to look any further back but I think it's a pretty standard one for that sort of service.

ludothedog · 26/11/2019 15:11

Yanbu but then I believe religion should be kept out of school. Load of old tosh anyway, and sexist

TheHodgeoftheHedge · 26/11/2019 15:12

Actually it really is the pretty standard first reading from 9 lessons/carols. If you don't believe me and PP, then Kings College should help :)

RevolutionofOurTime · 26/11/2019 15:12

The school is non denominational. Not catholic or anything else.

I didn’t grow up in the UK and have never heard of the 9 lessons in my entire life.

OP posts:
churchandstate · 26/11/2019 15:12

Yanbu but then I believe religion should be kept out of school. Load of old tosh anyway, and sexist

That’s a view you are entitled to, but the OP has chosen to send her child to a school that does teach within a religious tradition.

Faircastle · 26/11/2019 15:13

If the Fall hadn't happened, then the Incarnation would not have been necessary. The chosen readings tell a story.

Ohyesiam · 26/11/2019 15:13

It’s not standard 9 lessons. It’s also the root of a lot of women’s problems. I am not particularly reactive, but I’d hate my children to be part of this and if want to tell the school why.
I have to put my hand up and say I feel quite fucked over by my catholic Upbringing and schooling, so it’s triggering .

churchandstate · 26/11/2019 15:13

A non-denominational school (not CofE?) doing a carol service? Okay. Well, it’s as simple as refusing your DD permission to do the reading.

churchandstate · 26/11/2019 15:14

I’d hate my children to be part of this and if want to tell the school why.

You can withdraw your child from such events.

Nettleskeins · 26/11/2019 15:16

The whole point is that Jesus saves us from Original Sin. That is why it is in the Christmas service.

Anyway, it is actually quite a thought provoking reading, most children like the story of Adam and Eve and the apple/apricot and the snake.

DoYouRememberTheInnMiranda · 26/11/2019 15:16

This passage is about when sin entered the world - what made Jesus' coming to Earth so necessary (and such a humbling thing).
Christianity is the whole Bible, not just the NT.

EdithWeston · 26/11/2019 15:17

First two readings are Genesis, then two from Isaiah, then 5 from the New Testament.

Faircastle · 26/11/2019 15:18

The reading from Genesis 3 has been the first of the nine lessons for decades. Often followed by a carol such as Adam lay ybounden (which mentions the relevance of the Fall to the Christmas story).

Lifecraft · 26/11/2019 15:18

Just be thankful they aren't doing Ezekiel 23: 19-20.

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