To think people have lost their power of critical thought

[TheClaws]

I’ve noticed a tendency of people across social media to respond to posts without any critical thought or analysis. Eg. Someone tweets ‘There was no quid pro quo: the sham is over.’ The replies to this tweet are primarily ‘AGREE!’ ‘We need to make arrests’ etc. DISCLAIMER: this is just an example. Please don’t jump on this content. If you do, you’re somewhat proving that point.

Regardless of political affiliations, this reluctance to think frightens me. I see over a range of subjects, not just politics - though in the political arena, it is dangerous, as we run the risk of being used by others. (By this I mean misleading social media posts could be made and commented upon as above by unwitting people.)

My point is this: before you comment on something, research it, even just a little bit. Use more than one source. Learn what sources are trustworthy and what are not credible. This process doesn’t take much time and soon becomes second nature.

@Devereux1

My point is that “us” and “them” is constructed, not always natural and not always a useful way of getting debate going. In fact, I think it’s an impediment to debate. If you’ve already decided someone’s a “them” it decreases the likelihood that you’ll engage respectfully and empathically (to borrow a point raised by a pp).

It also assumes that we’ve all agreed on the terms of engagement. So no, I don’t think it’s a fair assumption at all that a person who would post “semi-naked” (what’s the definition of that anyway? It’s changed with the times. Your “semi-naked” might be my “wearing a bikini”) photos of themselves is an idiot for complaining about what people post in reply. But we can agree to disagree.

And thats part of the problem isnt it

Aspiring to be culturally informed and a thinker has suddenly become seen a negative and the province of elites and snobs whilst dumbing yourself down shows how Girl Next Door and identifiable you are.

Not being able to think critically is not a good thing and it is not superior to say so.

YANBU - that's what years of being in a culture with years education bashing and rampant individualism will get you as a society......

I don't think many people have time to stop and think any more, let alone find out information for themselves.

Which is fair comment, but why do they need to reply to random SM posts in the first place when they havn't a clue what the truth amounts to. If they're really so short of time, why waste time replying? Why waste time even reading the SM posts? As my old grandfather used to say, "Do the job properly or don't do it at all"!

@jpharm If you pull money from the education system and teach to the test (the great Michael Rosen often gives examples of these sort of questions at primary, one is something like the man was wearing a blue hat. It was raining. Why was the man wearing a hat? Answer: 'because it was raining' = correct. 'Incorrect' answers are things like: because he supports Chelsea, because he had a bad haircut, he likes wearing hats, etc. If kids are taught there is one answer and that is the right one from a young age, there is no hope to develop the critical thinking. M Rosen tells explains it better ) then you have a controlled population as you can tell them whatever you like and they have no real choice but to accept it.

I'm no conspiracist.....but....(how all good conspiracy theories start ) if you pull money from the education system, teach a narrow curriculum, close libraries and therefore access to reliable sources of information/way for free thinkers to find new information, close children centres....what do you have? I am not saying the Tories have a master plan to control the population or that it would be in the interests of the wealthy to have a more controllable workforce.....but...occasionally I like to idly let my brain wander and I have on occasion felt rather suspicious of their motives

close libraries

In our village it was a Labour council under a Labour government that closed our library - the same council and same government who removed funding for the subsidised village buses - so we ended up with no buses and no library under Labour! You can't blame the Tories for things that happened before they were even elected! In fact, it's under a Tory council under a Tory government that the village library was re-opened. It's not all a blue versus red matter.

The case of poor Charlie Gard, who died just before his first birthday, is a striking example of this ignorant, knee jerk thinking. Social media was packed with fools insisting that Charlie was not being treated to save NHS money. A striking number of Americans were very involved. They were sure Charlie was being put to death due to the heavy anti NHS propaganda put out by right wingers and anti abortion activists in the USA.

Sometimes people seem to prefer ignorance to information, I suppose because cold, hard facts aren't as exciting.

Initially I excused Charlie's heartbroken parents, whom I could see were being whipped up by conspiracy theorists, but then I got to wondering why they hadn't explored the details of Charlie's condition themselves. Understanding his genetic disorder would have helped them in so many ways and would have demolished the whole pointless controversy.

@VanyaHargreeves I think that’s exactly the problem.

Discussions around who has snogged whom on Love Island or who has had plastic surgery Etc is seen as acceptable conversation. However, try and enter into a non - hysterical conversation about politics, history, literature, social mobility, the news and so on you’re suddenly a snob. In reality such accusations derive from people having either the inability or, more likely, a lack or curiosity, to seek out a more plausible truth.

It pains me that discussions around this week’s wannabe’s sexual exploits seems to carry more social cache than reasoned and informed debates, but that’s a whole different argument I guess.

Cassie Jaye, when describing her thought process when she was making The Red Pill, says that when a men’s rights advocate would say “men lose access to their kids after a divorce”, she’d hear “women have to disproportionately care for the children”. When they’d say “men’s lifespans average five fewer years than women”, she’d hear “women are forced to spend five years alone at the end of their lives because of men”.

She describes the feeling of revelation she had when she realized she was so entrenched in her existing “women have it bad, men are at fault” that she simply couldn’t hear what they were saying.

It’s interesting how bad people are at listening to each other, and how they create their own echo chambers.

I agree too, it saddens me completely. In my professional job no one can see the bigger picture or critique circumstances more than their own experience.

I dont see much hope for the future either unless we encourage our children to think outside the box. An example pedalled by my dc primary school last week. The teacher commenting on exemplary handwriting as this is required by the new academy we are under, but my dh and I saying surely content of the writing g is more important than the appearance?

@NoNewsisGood This is true, they don’t want an educated working class, it’s why they mocked Corbyn’s broadband plan outright.

I'm another one who did History A level (and classics degree). Looking at a variety of sources is so important to teach you critical thinking - eg realising how the nazis were able to use the media to whip people up.

Im very suspicious when 'meeja studies' is slammed as a 'Micky mouse' course, particularly and ironically by the media! People learning to think critically, and learn how the media can manipulate, is a bad thing? I suppose the murdoch-owned media would want people to think that...

An example pedalled by my dc primary school last week. The teacher commenting on exemplary handwriting as this is required by the new academy we are under, but my dh and I saying surely content of the writing g is more important than the appearance?

I'd say both equal importance. No point trying to write something fantastic if people can't easily read what you're writing. If writing isn't clear, then people will just not bother reading it and the message is lost. Poor writing also leads to misunderstandings, mis-readings etc., which can be critical if other users of the document mis-read - i.e. in medical life, could be life threatening if "hyperxxxx" is misread as "hypoxxxxx". Yes, I agree not everyone needs perfect/copperplate writing, but basic legibility/neatness is important.

I'm another one who did History A level (and classics degree). Looking at a variety of sources is so important to teach you critical thinking - eg realising how the nazis were able to use the media to whip people up.

I bet you think the media whip up only one side of the argument though, I bet the race baiting articles are not considered a contribution to the state of political discourse we have now.

Im very suspicious when 'meeja studies' is slammed as a 'Micky mouse' course, particularly and ironically by the media! People learning to think critically, and learn how the media can manipulate, is a bad thing? I suppose the murdoch-owned media would want people to think that...

Ah, yeah, you do.

For clarity, I’m not suggesting that all people that use social media are idiots. That would be a ridiculous blanket statement. All I’m trying to suggest is that social media could be used more carefully. I use social media - quite a bit. But if I don’t automatically ‘like’ or comment on posts, and if I see something that I think I’d like to comment on, I quickly look it up first. This is not hard to do but this simple step is what is lacking in many people - and it’s being taken advantage of. Take this power back!

Justanotherlurker Have you RTFT? If you had, you’d note that I did say “all sides of the spectrum” more than once. I made a point of it actually due to posters like yourself, but I guess you read only what you wanted to read. (Somewhat the point of the thread, right?)

Good thought provoking thread op.

I would like to think.of myself as a critical thinker ( I'm all about the grey areas in life!). I find myself more polarised in my thinking in recent years politically. I try and see the opposite argument e.g. voting leave for Brexit but I get annoyed at like people have mentioned, ' sound bites' with no information to go on. I find myself less trust of politicians- particularly Boris Johnson. These are strange times we live in the world is changing and people are fearful. Brexit presented a seemingly simpler answer to what is a complex problem and it's elusive to buy that simple argument.

We have like others have said, an abundance of information at our fingertips - perhaps an overwhelming amount for most people. Social media boxes us into echo chambers so we don't often get the chance to hear others views. When we do hear others view it descends into mid slinging far quicker than it used too.

There are too many people of the hard-of-thinking persuasion around, and you can't argue with stupid, however hard you try.

I am actually scared of the divisiveness in our society at the moment. People are seemingly not willing to find a common ground. I totally get your comment egontoste, that you can't argue with stupid...demonstrated over and over, sadly! What really bothers me is when you can't argue with intelligent either.

There's evidence that older people are far more likely to share fake news than younger people. This is a real problem as voter groups that you would suspect to be the most informed are currently now the most susceptible to misinformation.

That does concern me, Spamantha. That, in turn, makes them an easy target. Here’s an example of an (alleged) older person’s retweets/tweets (names crossed out to protect the innocent elder):

Xxxxxxxxx (MAGA 2020) @xxxxxxxx

The vast majority of KKK members were Democrat. All you have to do is check history for the proof. Dems voted no to freed slaves owning land and voting. Again. Check history.

Now, this person sent this tweet to a historian. Even allowing for the debunked content of this tweet, most tweets on her timeline run on similar lines. She has over a thousand followers, so whatever she retweets - several times a day - is seen and retweeted again by similar-minded people. This is where the danger lies and this is what is exploited by organisations.

Think and look up before you like!

Dumb people have a platform now. They didn’t used to.
That’s the difference.

Using Google for research is an issue. Turns out Google tweaks the results to , well I'm not too sure why, to 'improve' society I think.
In Douglas Murray's book The Madness of Crowds it is mentioned that searching for American Inventors in google brings up many black American inventors in the images. This seems good, that black people who are unrecognised are getting shown but it means that the more famous inventors (imv the ones who have made a difference to our lives) are relegated. In my own view it also paints a false picture that black people were as prominent and successful in 19thC US as white people - because here they all are. When from history we know they were not given teh opportunities in the US in education etc that white (mainly men ) were. I've just realised Almost no white female inventors come up - hmmm.
Also search for heterosexual couples and a mix of heterosexual couples appear in the images and a several homosexual couples. But if you do the search in eg Turkey, All the images are heterosexual couples.
Google is telling you what they think you need to know.
The searches may bring up different results now, now that these tweaks have been publicised - my laptop brings up the same images but is that due to cookies on my specific laptop, I don't know?

I really don’t think it’s helpful to say “dumb”. I think it’s good everyone has a voice now. It’s simply some could use theirs more effectively - or not allow others to advantage of their naïvety.

Stooshie Thank you for that. I think any research is good, but there are alternative browsers like DuckDuckGo if Google is problematic.

Thanks, have changed to Duckduckgo, I was being lazy using Google.