Parking one! Who is UR?

[manyfingersinmanypies]

We have lived in our house for 8 years, and our neighbours have been here 4. Were three houses in a cul de sac. All owned.

Each house in the cul de sac has one allocated parking space. Our house has an extra (which we bought) bit of land which we've gravelled and turned into parking, accessible via our allocated space and one of the other houses have a similar set up. The third house just has their one space.

When you go into the cul de sac there is a round area with a turning space which is primarily for us (as we're in the corner) and the other neighbour with parking to turn so that you aren't required to reverse out onto a fairly fast moving main road almost on top of a junction. This is not a parking area but access to the houses and turning space.

However, since neighbours have moved in they've always parked one of their cars in the turning area. Though annoying, we've always let it go, as it's obviously convenient for them with a family not to have to park on the road (which is still right next to their house the road is only separated from their garden by a footpath).

A couple of weeks ago however a visitor to our home parked in the turning space because they were coming to watch my children and I needed to be able to get my car out (which I can't do if they're on my allocated space). No big deal, you'd think. Anyway I go to leave and neighbours have parked on our allocated space, completely blocking me in (because my car was on our gravelled area, and you have to drive over our allocated space to get out).

I knocked, and nicely asked them to move in the next 15 minutes or so so that I could get out. They refused unless my visitor moved. I explained that the turning space is not their own parking space, which they disputed. I was really polite and told them that unfortunately they were mistaken and that it's very clear on the deeds that they only have one space, and that their parking there is nothing more than a friendly courtesy, not their right. They insisted that it was their parking space, that their estate agent told them at the time they bought that it was theirs and did not move their car until my visitor left. They were quite rude and confrontational about it even though I was as polite and as reasonable and I could be.

I dug out the deeds - because I wanted to check I wasn't wrong in which case I'd have gone and apologised - and I was right. So I popped back round later to show them. They basically said they didn't give a shit and that they'd continue to park there there.

I explained that we didn't mind that even though it inconveniences us and the other house, but that in turn, they couldn't then complain or block us in if someone visiting us or the other house parked there. Either it's ok for people - including them - to park there and we all live and let live and accept that sometimes someone else is going to be there or no one parks there at all and it's kept as a turning space as intended.

Half the time they actually use their allocated space and their lawn, which I suggested maybe they could do if someone was on the tarmac, they refused. They've said if anyone parks on 'their' space then they will from now on block us or the other neighbour in and not move until whoever is parked there moves. I'm not sure how they plan to figure out who is at who's house!

Thoughts?! On the app so no voting option.

Yabu if you think it's ok for your visitor to park in the turning space and not them.

Can you get the local PCSO to come and have a word?

They can fuck off, you're being more than fair from what you've said here.

@Greatorb I think it's either fine for anyone to park there or no one at all. It's not fine for one party to claim it's theirs when it's not!

If you haven't challenged them for the four years they've lived there, then unfortunately it has become 'their space', in practice.

If you have visitors in the future I think you need to either go out and juggle cars so they are in one of your allocated spaces, or ask them to park on the road.

If you parked on the road instead of your parking spaces, who would it inconvenience? Nice neighbour or cheeky f*er?

Diagram as promised! Colour coded and everything.

So who actually owns the common parts of the estate, ie the central driveway and the turning space? Is it owned by the three households, or by a private estate/ management company?

Nice diagram! Well done OP!

People who park in turning spaces in cul de sacs are arseholes therefore your neighbours are aresholes.

Beautiful diagram OP!

Common parts of the estate that the council would usually be responsible for is a management company (so they maintain green areas that aren't privately owned gardens and fix potholes in the roads, streetlights etc).

None of the three of us own that shared space our boundaries are clear on our deeds however according to the management company the upkeep of it it our shared responsibility- I'm assuming if a huge hole appeared in it then the three of us would have to chip in to sort it.

I think the way your neighbours spoke to you was uncalled for.

What else is the blue dotted area?

Good diagram.

They’re arseholes. You are right- either it’s ok for everyone to park there or no-one to park there. Unless they purchase the land they have no entitlement to sole use of that part of the road. But I don’t think there is anything you can do if they park there. You can call the police if they park on your allocated space but only if by doing so they are blocking your car in.

Thanks for the diagram - nice!

They are wrong, but I can kind of see how they justify it in their minds. We have plenty of parking threads where people are annoyed that people with big houses and drives leave them empty and insist on perfectly legally taking spaces on the public road instead, thus apparently depriving those without drives of adequate convenient parking. They might choose to ignore the fact (or not even realise) that you and the other house have paid more for your extra spaces and just see taking the wider edge part (ignoring its intended use as turning space) as them getting their fair share - especially if they see it that the cul-de-sac has 2 parking spaces each but not very good turning room, and that's just one of the bad things you have to put up with along with all the good.

At our last house, we lived in a cul-de-sac and there was a row of houses along each side and then some (including ours) offset at the end. The houses in the side rows each had a parking space and small grassed area adjacent to their houses, but these were in fact communal, as was the larger bit at the end. In practice, though, the larger bit at the end was used as a free-for-all by the drive-less houses AND by those in the side rows with more than one car or visitors. Although we would have been perfectly within our rights to park adjacent to their houses, the locations of the spaces caused the side home residents to assume them as theirs and would have made us feel very awkward - maybe like when long-established public footpaths or bridleways happen to go through somebody's private garden.

It could be that that's part of your neighbour's thinking - "a space big enough for a car is right next to our house, and next door have plenty of parking the other side, so of course it must be intended for our use."

House 1 needs to do what you and 3 have done and make half their garden a parking area. But they don't need to, do they, because they've annexed the turning area!

I'd speak to the management company about it since they're the people who actually own that area, and say you want to be able to turn in it.

You could always have rising bollards and a sensor on your car to stop anyone going into your parking space.

I also think you were a teeny bit unreasonable since you were parked on your gravel, your visitor could have parked in your space.

What is in the gap between houses 1&2? Any chance they could buy that land and make it their second parking space?

Also, not justifying it at all, but plenty of estate agents will make gross assumptions and state as 'fact' what they have no way of knowing is or isn't actually true. They might have said "And you've got a good wide space at the side of the road here" knowing full-well that you could equally interpret "you've got" as meaning either "there is a [communal] space" or "there is a space for your personal use."

EA's just want to sell the house - they don't care how happy you or your neighbours are afterwards and, if there are any complaints, they'll just refer you back to the tiny print telling you to confirm everything with your conveyancers.

It's a bit like when you get people who unwittingly buy a stolen car and then genuinely can't see why they shouldn't keep it - and will insist until they're blue in the face that they have proof they paid for it (which, of course, they did), so they have every right to keep it. If somebody ostensibly in charge or in a position of authority promises you something and you trust them, it's human nature to rely on your own honest good faith rather than accepting that they lied to you.

Council won't get involved at all, it's a private estate.

So ask the management company to put "Keep clear" or "No parking" signs up.

Probably missing the point here, but is your gravel area to scale? If it is, does it not effectively join with your actual drive to make parking for 5 or 6 cars (albeit some would be blocked in when others arrive)?

This is a clear example of why it's best to nip things in the bud. I know you were trying to be lenient and neighbourly, but now they feel entitled to park there. I can see some petty behaviour coming your way. If the council can't do anything it might have to be a solicitors letter.

Not exactly to scale I'm no professional drawer We've got parking for two normal sized cars on the gravel and one on the set space. House 3 has the same, two on the gravel and one set space.

The gap between houses doesn't exist it's my shit drawing skills. Our houses are joined together. But yes they could easily take a bit of their front grass and turn it into a driveway.

I know estate agents embellish at best and lie at worst. Buyer beware, always check your documentation! I don't doubt they were under the impression that it was their space because they'd been told that. However when politely confronted with the facts, with documentation to back it up you'd think they'd say 'oh bloody hell sorry, we didn't realise!'

How about a solicitors letter? Or if the council don’t own the road who does? Is it still own by the developer? If so inform him

I’d get a cease and desist letter sent. Although you will have to declare a dispute with your neighbour if you sell.