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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Concerned about Labour’s plans to build more houses

203 replies

Dongdingdong · 21/11/2019 19:16

First of all - I’m in broad support of Labour’s manifesto and am very happy to hear that they want to build hundreds of thousands of council houses if they win the election.

BUT I’m concerned about WHERE these homes will be built. I don’t want to see wildlife destroyed and swathes of green land concreted over and covered in ugly roads and houses.

If Corbyn commits to building these homes on brownfield sites within towns, cities and industrial sites then I will 100% support that and then some.

But they shouldn’t be built at the expense of the environment.

AIBU?

OP posts:
Drabarni · 22/11/2019 22:24

www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/revealed-hundreds-liverpool-homes-lying-15006272

I chose this as a recommendation from a friend.

leckford · 22/11/2019 22:25

Labour are unlikely to get in. There has been massive house building everywhere I go in the U.K., if immigration is massively reduced we won’t need more.

Most housing demand is in London, stop building multi £ flats for foreign investors and build ordinary ones

Angela9 · 22/11/2019 22:36

@inwood

4 people living in approx 50 square foot was classed as minor overcrowding and in approx 35 square foot before that was classed as minor-moderate overcrowding.

CactusAndCacti · 22/11/2019 23:02

there is no way those houses could be built in a year, the construction industry is already stretched to breaking point.There's not enough trades people for a start, brick production is way below what's needed.

Modular houses are the way forwards - quicker and more affordable. We need to totally re-think about what housing should be like.

ilkehomes.co.uk/ilke-homes-launches-its-first-modular-houses-for-sale/

Booboosweet · 22/11/2019 23:03

Human Beings are an absolute parasite. Where I live, I would prefer to see green land with animals than us.

inwood · 22/11/2019 23:16

@Booboosweet so you're going to expire the human race?

ferrier · 23/11/2019 00:38

No massive house building here. Just a chronic and massive shortage of social housing. Every week I see homeless people (and homeless doesn't just mean sleeping rough and with drug dependencies and mental health conditions ..... although I'm sure it causes a fair few of them).
Nothing wrong with living in social housing for life. There's not a lot that's more important than having a stable environment.

HeIenaDove · 23/11/2019 03:02

"True Social Housing too not this bastardised poor housing but Social that benefits society not a housing association with share holders"

Well you know you wont get any argument from me on this @TheQueef

If Corbyn wants to nationalise something he should nationalise the housing associations.

Faithsangel · 23/11/2019 03:06

Certain people wouldnt want to live here If their country didnt treat them so bad so unfortunately more homes need to be built. Just wish they would make little cabins for homeless to stay In so they can at least be off the streets

HeIenaDove · 23/11/2019 03:14

HelenaDove Sun 17-Nov-19 18:36:22
17.11.2019
It’s Time to Be Honest about Housing
By
Glyn Robbins
For decades terms like 'affordable,' 'social,' 'mixed' have been used as cover for market failures in housing - it's time to move on from those schemes and commit to a real solution: council housing.

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When it comes to housing, language matters. Politicians, bureaucrats, big business and self-appointed experts have become well-versed in using words that convey one thing, but mean another. This doublespeak has been deliberately used to underpin a particular policy approach which, at root, favours the failed capitalist market over socialist alternatives.

But whatever the political outlook, there’s no denying we have an acute housing emergency. As we approach a general election in which tackling the crisis will be a vital issue, it’s imperative to challenge and change the misleading terminology that’s been used as cover for policies that are causing huge damage to working class communities – and in some places, the reputation of the Labour Party.

If you want to get a laugh out of someone eager to hop on the housing ladder, say “affordable housing” – because most people know how little it means. The abuse of the term began in 2010 when the Tory-led coalition government defined affordable rent as anything up to 80% of the full market level. This opened a door, which was already ajar, for private developers to get planning permission while purporting to provide affordable homes, but at prices well beyond the means of most people and bearing no relationship to local housing need.

Another discredited term is “social housing.” This has been used as a convenient catch-all to disguise important differences between different types of non-market rented homes.

The prime culprits for this deliberate distortion are Housing Associations (HAs), particularly the big ones who have become virtually indistinguishable from private developers. The origins of this charade was in the Blair-Brown era policy of stock transfer, which drove two million council homes – and the land they stand on – out of public ownership into the private sector, a bigger transfer of wealth than any of the Thatcher-era privatisations.

This could usually only happen after tenants had voted in favour of the move. To persuade them, HAs needed to create the subterfuge that they were more or less the same as councils. They’re not. HAs are legally defined, constituted and operated as private businesses, and their tenants have significantly weaker legal rights and higher rents. Referring to HAs as “social landlords” providing “social housing” hides these facts.

The next item in the linguistic three-card trick is “mixed communities.” This term has assumed sacred status in urban policy and government circles, without any evidence to support it. The concept is that bringing people from different socio-economic backgrounds together in one place produces multiple benefits. On its surface, that seems plausible.

But in practice, what might be a laudable aim is based on deception, hypocrisy and class prejudice. The reality of “mixed” housing developments is often physical separation by tenure, as graphically illustrated by Guardian journalist Harriet Grant’s exposure of the segregation of children’s play areas. Commonly, so called “mixed” housing means social renters in one building, private owners in another, where they enjoy better facilities and probably a better view.

The mixed mantra suggests it’s better for working class communities to have middle class people living with them, acting as role models and bringing trickle-down wealth and cultural diversity to an area, reflected in new shops and coffee bars. I once discussed this with a property developer, who worked for a HA. He said “we thought it was going to be better for the estate as a whole to have a Tesco there that didn’t sell out of date milk and the odd bottle of twenty year old Blue Nun… we’d have thought we’d arrived if there was a Starbucks there or a deli, as well as the pound shop.”

The prime targets for such social engineering are council estates subject to large scale “regeneration” projects, another word that’s become heavily loaded. Again, some of the responsibility for this lies with New Labour. In 1998, Tony Blair launched the New Deal for Communities at the Aylesbury estate in south London. Today, the area is testimony to how housing policies dominated by private developers have reshaped working class communities and the role of HAs in this
The Elephant and Castle neighbourhood is being physically, socially and ethnically transformed. This started with the demolition of the Heygate estate, a classic for stigmatised perceptions of council housing and the people who live in it. As the local 35% Campaign has meticulously documented, a succession of promises to Heygate residents were broken to arrive at a situation where 1,214 council homes were demolished, to be replaced with 2,704 new homes, of which only 82 (3%) are for social rent. The HA partner was London and Quadrant. To be eligible for the cheapest one-bedroom home built by them on the Heygate site, people needed a minimum household income of £57,500. The average household income in that part of Southwark is £24,324

There are numerous similar examples from other places around the country, where a seductive lexicon has been used to camouflage brutal profit-seeking and displacement. At Labour’s 2017 conference, Jeremy Corbyn correctly referred to such practices as “social cleansing.” There is also a strong element of institutional racism in policies that favour better-off home owners and seek to recreate an area in their image – as James Baldwin bluntly put it, “urban renewal means negro removal.” But the other critical point about the policies that lie behind the words is that they don’t work! We’ve had over 20 years of the developer-led, public-private partnership model and the housing crisis has only got worse.

It is essential that the Labour Party breaks with the misleading, dishonest and failed housing policies of the past. The first step for doing this is restoring real council housing to the mainstream, as the centrepiece of a comprehensive rethink. The opportunity is there. Party conference has unanimously adopted a raft of transformative measures, including ending right-to-buy, improving rights for private tenants, using publicly-owned land to build publicly-owned homes and reforming HAs. They must be included in the election manifesto.

For too long, mealy-mouthed Labour politicians have seemed embarrassed by council housing. This has allowed the language of housing to be captured and twisted by corporate interests. Council housing cuts through the verbiage. Working class communities know what it means, how it works and why it’s important. Sometimes those qualities can be taken for granted, so it’s worth repeating them.

Only council housing offers genuinely affordable rents and secure tenancies that can form the foundation of people’s lives. Only council housing is directly linked to the democratic process. Decisions are taken in public, by elected politicians who can be voted out. Another linguistic distortion by hostile forces is that council housing is “subsidised,” when, in fact, it generates a net surplus and receives far less public money than the private market.

Council housing also has the capacity to link to wider social policy objectives, particularly around environmentalism. Climate change won’t be stopped through the individualism fostered by the ideology of private home ownership. Above all, council housing works because it’s not subject to the whims of the speculative property market.

It’s a supreme perversion of language that council housing is sometimes attacked because it provides “a home for life.” Labour needs to turn that around and say that’s exactly what we want

HeIenaDove · 23/11/2019 03:25

HelenaDove Thu 08-Aug-19 23:43:07
www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/residents-near-tottenhams-new-stadium-18864998

Residents near Tottenham's new stadium fear they're being 'pushed out of area'

Plush new £1billion stadium couldn't be further away from Love Lane estate as tensions between club and locals grow.

Outside, you are standing on streets that are among the 5% most deprived in Britain.

The stadium redevelopment was an opportunity to lift the prospects of the people who live here.

But, instead, as the regeneration surrounding the stadium continues with a development known as High Road West, many families now fear they will simply be swept away.

A new walkway proposed to bring fans from a new station entrance at White Hart Lane station brings its own statistics. 297 social housing homes threatened with demolition in a borough with a severe housing shortage

Where 10,000 households are on the council’s waiting list and 3,000 families are stuck in temporary accommodation.

Meanwhile, 30 small manufacturing businesses on the Peacock estate, providing hundreds of decent local jobs, are facing eviction via a ­compulsory purchase order

The proposals will also mean the loss of a library

StopMakingATitOfUrselfNPissOff · 23/11/2019 07:36

I'm not sure if it's common knowledge but when sites are bought, as part of the land deal they have to pay the local authority contributions for schools, healthcare, libraries etc. In order to try offset the 'impact' of the development. This frequently runs into the millions. It's then upto the LA how/when this is spent.
So all this 'schools are stretched to breaking point' or 'doctors are taking no patients' there are processes in place to try and mitigate that.

Atropa · 23/11/2019 08:40

I'm from the continent and one thing I am always amazed at is the British snobbery when it comes to living in flats. All people ever want seems to be houses, ideally detatched.

If more people got over themselves and started living in flats, housing and where to build it would be far less of an issue, especially affordable places.

Baldcrusader · 23/11/2019 08:48

Just read somewhere and forgive if inaccurate, Labour are proposing to remove the two child benefit limit. If this is the case, going to need a lot more houses with that kind of joined up thinking.

daisypond · 23/11/2019 08:50

It’s not just snobbery. Most flats are leasehold, which means you never actually own them, you just buy a right to live there for a time. You also have to pay often huge service charges that you may have no input or control over, and ground rent. It’s different on the Continent.

Weebitawks · 23/11/2019 09:00

The problem with house building is no one bloody wants new houses near them. Show me any proposed housing development and I'll show you a group of a angry locals trying to stop it.

A lady in the town I live in wants to sell her land to the council at a reduced rate on the proviso that they build social housing. A plan for 24 houses (12 buildings as semi detached) is being put forward and people are losing the plot. There is such a massive demand for social housing round here. It's a small country town so housing stock is really limited and people tend to stay here.

The angry locals have come up with a million reasons why the houses can't be built there but won't say where they should be built.

CactusAndCacti · 23/11/2019 09:18

Just read somewhere and forgive if inaccurate, Labour are proposing to remove the two child benefit limit. If this is the case, going to need a lot more houses with that kind of joined up thinking.

It's not child benefit, it is child tax credits. And it hasn't stopped people from having more children. They just have more children with less money.

Toomuchgoingon · 23/11/2019 09:34

There is currently underway discussion about the Oxford-Cambridge expressway. One part of it is putting a new motorway in between these two cities as apparently it's needed. Bollocks. It's basically so that the property developers can build up to 1 million houses along the route. Some would be expanding existing towns such as Milton Keynes but the rest would be building whole new towns and cities where it is currently fields. If they have their way, they will be building another city the size of Oxford, over what is villages and countryside. It will be disastrous.

We didn't have enough water last year or the year before but no issues problem, just add another million or so more people. All those extra cars, more pollution. The current road system will never cope. Yes to some new development but at the current growth targets of approx 16%, not nearly 100%.

Toomuchgoingon · 23/11/2019 09:36

And should add that they won't be the social housing....these will be the profitable 3-4 beds that make the developer the most cash before they bigger off and ruin another area.

EducatingArti · 23/11/2019 11:02

There is enough brownfield land available right now to meet all our home building needs for the next 7 years.

ferrier · 24/11/2019 09:20

It's not child benefit, it is child tax credits. And it hasn't stopped people from having more children. They just have more children with less money.

UC too.
And it's too early to tell.

TheQueef · 24/11/2019 11:31

We will never ever stop developers trying to make a fast profit. The infrastructure isn't their concern.

What we can do is push and insist on more genuine social housing. Not poor housing social housing, where nurses can live near the hospital they work in etc the original principle still apply.
Before anyone dares mention it there is no subsidy, the rent stays at cost+10% profit.
Because it's building a community all the necessary infrastructure built at the same time with impact and benefits considered.
When people have a realistic option of a home for life if they should want it the demand for private rented goes down and the pressure to buy unsuitable but affordable houses drops.
That takes the profit away from developer and but to let ll.
Stopping the rush to build for profit.

We can do something about it if we get rid of the stigma and propaganda and get behind a true social housing revamp.

TheQueef · 24/11/2019 13:21

I forgot.
We need to stop ghettoisation of areas too. Stop the policies that encourage segregation of minorities and poverty stricken. Stop entire areas becoming exclusively or poor.
It doesn't work, is divisive and hinders any cohesion.

HeIenaDove · 24/11/2019 16:50

The ghettoisation is a direct result of the residulisation of social housing.