To think Companies/employers should offered more flexible work, less hours, more annual leave

[Luna9]

Just reading another thread about how unhappy many people is to be working/commuting 5 days per week and I am thinking people will be happier if they could have a bit more flexibility like doing some days/hours from home. Also 35 hours per week instead of 37.5 or 40 and 30 days annual leave.

I understand flexible working doesn’t work for some jobs but it does for many others.

I think people will be more productive and happier.

Just dreaming

Lots of employees are very inefficient and often out of the depth and take far too long to complete work. Managers need to tackle this honestly first, then they can start to look at flexible working/ reduced hours. But there is no point pretending the same work can take place in less time if you’re employees aren’t capable

It might not work for particular organisations, but some people have been talking as if a 4 day week means the business only operates for 4 days. I wouldn't expect things to change overnight, in any case, because it would be something which needs planning. I can see in some organisations, it won't work - but I do think it could be more common than it currently is. Many organisations operate quite rigidly and while this is sometimes necessary, there is often the scope for more flexibility if people would open their minds to it. For office work, it wouldn't be a massive change to say people can start between 8 and 10, finish between 4 and 6, instead of insisting it must be 9-5.

I expect that people have said it will be unworkable from the first factory acts restricting working hours (no way we can do it with people just working 10 hour days!), the first paid holidays, all that sort of thing.

@EBearhug but who would do the 20% of my weekly work that I do on the 5th day? You can’t argue that the company isn’t 20% short on resources surely?

And I’ll say honestly as an FD if the work could be done with 20% less resource it would be FAR FAR better for me to reduce staffing by 20% than to keep them on less hours

It depends on the industry.

I'm in IT so there can be some flexibility with regards start/finish times, working from home.

I think saying people "would like more flexibility, shorter hours and more holiday", however, is a bit of a given.

"However, people can't expect to reduce hours without losing pay."

Many are already working extra hours without pay. Why should they be expected to work for free?

Tanith if they have to work more than 40 hours a week to get their job done then how are they going to manage it in less?

My company allows flexible working, flexible times and 30 days holiday. People are very encouraged, our revenue is increasing above the market, we have high retention. We are also paid above the market average for our sector.

A 4 day working week was trialled in Japan and productivity jumped 40%.

I just don’t understand how productivity increases with a 4 day week? Take the simplistic example of a production line- if you shut it down for 20% of the time you’d make 20% less?

Just to repeat myself: It might not work for particular organisations

But I still think a lot of people are determined it can't possibly work without really thinking about it and looking to see if there might be solutions.

I’m struggling to see what sort of organisations it would work for though? You’re still losing 20% of your resource.

A four day week and flexible working are two different things though Ebearhug. Where possible I think organisations should offer flexible working ....that makes sense. In my job as long as I'm on campus for teaching and meetings the rest of my work can be done when and where suits me. That makes a huge difference in my quality of life.

However, take away 20% of my time we will have a problem. Who will cover my lost 20% without it costing my employer more money than it does just to employ me 5 days a week? I'd just end up doing 5 days work in 4.....just as many part time workers already do. That will be the issue across many, many sectors.

I'm sure they've done trials in places where reduced hours/a four day week increases productivity because people get more relaxation time, and more time with their friends and family.

I just don’t understand how productivity increases with a 4 day week? Take the simplistic example of a production line- if you shut it down for 20% of the time you’d make 20% less?

But people aren't robots, they're humans with emotions and limits - who get tired and who have other demands on their time beyond work. If you give people more down time, they're going to have more energy at work, and are probably going to be more focused in the long run. You can't compare human beings to machines in that way.

I know you can’t compare people to machines but they are mainly still performing tasks.

Take the company receptionist - someone has to cover her day off on the 4 day week. Who? Who covers that persons work?

There are really very few roles that benefit from “thinking time”

Lots of professional jobs would work better for clients as well as the employees as job shares, and lots of employers wouldn't even countenance it.

If we want more people to work well into their 60s and a fully employed, engaged, healthy, productive, age and gender-balanced workforce well-paid jobs of 21 hours a week have to become more the norm than 35+ hours.

We could do it too if the top 0.5- 1% weren't allowed to get away with sheer unadulterated profiteering and greed. I'm not against capitalism entirely but it has to be balanced with socialist principles and heavily regulated. Even Thatcher didn't realise that deregulation would lead to such unfettered greed, and thought people would be more philanthropic. Ha!

Some people here would have been the Victorian mill owners arguing against cotton mills having adequate ventilation so that workers didn't die of having lungs stuffed with cotton fluff in their 20s.

It will have to work anyway, as millenials are refusing to work the kind of hours that my generation have (gen X). Good on them!

Really shearwater? I’ve not noticed that at all.

I agree job shares and woefully underused and solve a lot of the production problems we’re discussing

Take the company receptionist - someone has to cover her day off on the 4 day week. Who? Who covers that persons work?

What do you think happens in places that open seven days a week?

People work shifts, or you have people job-sharing. So someone does a four day week, and someone else does a three day week.

I don't think it's good for anyone to consistently work 40/50/60 hour weeks with no real break except for a few weeks annual leave and weekends. It's not surprising that so many people "burn out" or get mental health issues (stress, anxiety) due to work, but ultimately employers are all about making money - they don't really care about their employees. And why would they? Everyone is replaceable.

I think openness to flexible working (start/finish times, locations) and shorter working weeks are all part of the same mindset. Not everything will work everywhere, because of different types of work between sectors and in an individual business. But the starting point has to be thinking about it, and some people are determined it won't work from the outset.

I have no idea if it would be possible for any individual here, because I have no idea what any of you do or who you work for.

What you’re suggesting then adaline, is that the company hire more people, just as they would if they needed reception 7 days a week

Which is certainly one way to fill the gap. Not a popular one though.

The thing is ebearbug you’re saying it might not work for all organisations. I think it’s far more like it won’t work for all people in ANY organisation, but it might well work for some staff.
But then how do you deal with some staff having a 4 day week and some 5, with no pro rating of pay?

Which is certainly one way to fill the gap. Not a popular one though.

Of course it's not popular, but the way the world is going, why should businesses just operate Monday-Friday?

We expect next day delivery when ordering from Amazon, so that means warehouse staff and drivers have to work shifts/weekends/bank holidays, but very few people seem to want to do that themselves!

Of course it won't work in every single situation but it's certainly an option. However, people want the advantages of a shorter week, but don't want any potential inconveniences that come along with it...

I don’t really understand? Staff want the advantages of working a shorter week. The inconveniences are borne by the company they work for, paying out for more staff.

They’re 2 different group. And since the companies make the decisions, it won’t happen until there is an advantage for them too.

The 7 day week thing is completely unrelated- the OP is about working less, not more

YANBU. It's common sense in the modern workplace where more and more tasks are being automated anyway.

I actually did my master thesis on this subject, and where four day weeks and flexible working have been trialled, they have had mostly positive results. Productivity has increased, because well rested, engaged employees are better able to produce quality work than tired, ever present ones.

Of course there will be people who scream blue murder because they don't like change, or because they can't stand the idea of someone else benefitting from it. There was also opposition to moving from a six day to a five day week, and giving workers employment rights. These are things we take for granted now. We have to adapt to move forward.

We work 34 or 35 hour weeks, super flexible, home working available, good pensions, decent annual leave... it's possible.