AIBU to call in grammar pedants on this

[PlutoAjder]

A friend hasn't had a very good education and she's often embarrassed, asking me to explain something privately etc (a good example was she thought shaking hands with either hand was ok but someone at work sniggered about it so I had to explain, little things like that).

She often uses poor grammar and I can usually help as a native speaker.. e.g. you "threw" the ball,you didn't "throwed" it.

She's always done wierd things with the word "done" but I don't know how to help her, I'm not that hot on it myself! I've tried to print out some resources from English language websites before which she pins to the kitchen pinboard.. but I don't even know what I'm looking for with this "done" problem.

Examples of what she says:
I done the laundry (instead of I did the laundry)
I seen the dog (instead of I have seen the dog)
We done the dishes (instead of we have done the dishes or we did the dishes).

It's almost like she doesn't understand when a verb uses TO DO in it . You know, she says "I ate" but anything with "to do" in the sentence she uses the past tense of the verb.

Does that make sense to people on here with better grammar knowledge, and can you tell me how you might describe the problem so I can look for online help to print for her? (Or better yet point me in the direction of some?)

The right hand - unless you are in scouting/guiding situation when it's the left!

I'm not convinced that studying grammar worksheets is going to help here. She needs to ask you to interrupt and correct her during normal conversations, each and every time she gets it wrong, so she breaks the habit. But it can be awkward if not done sensitively.

LOL to everyone showing off about tenses. Just ask her if she minds if you correct her and when she says ‘I done the shopping’ tell her it’s ‘I have done the shopping’. She’ll pick it up just like kids do, through repetition. Trying to teach an adult to change bad habits by explaining complex grammatical rules is patronising and unlikely to work.

The best thing she can do, really, is to start to read stuff. Doesn't have to be really complicated - even her children's books will be enough! That will help her get a feel for how language is used, rather than feeling that she's having to learn/be taught how to use her own language, which must feel rather daunting, if not patronising.

What BIWI said. You learn standard English best from reading it, because there's a big difference between what people say and what is written, which is grammatically correct (usually) as it's been edited by a publisher.

This isn't going to help, but there is a move away from using the perfect tense. I think this has come over from the US where it is common to use the imperfect (?) rather than the perfect. So instead of saying 'I have just been shopping' people are saying 'I just went shopping'. 'I went shopping yesterday' would be correct because the time is specified.

Sometimes 'I done x' is akin to a dialect. It may show the person's class background in certain regions etc. It's 'wrong,' but we all know what she means, so it doesn't really matter, does it?

Basically, done and seen both need a ‘have’, otherwise it’s did and saw.

I’m also in agreement with BIWI - reading is the best thing she can do. Doesn’t have to be whole books - the editorial in the paper every day would help.

I hate it when people talk like this, but learnt to ignore it for the most part, because it's quite normal where we lived for a decade. It's not something which fits in where I live now. My partner speaks like this, he's from London and didn't do well at school (obvious dyslexia but he says he's too old to bother having it looked into now, and he earns more than either of my well spoken parents did). I feel for your friend, my partner says he feels ostracised by the well to do parents when he does the school run. Breaks my heart a bit; I think he's lovely and won't pull him up on his grammar, it's part of him. I hope your friend works this out and is happy at her new job.

Surely she’s just talking in her regional dialect? The characters in EastEnders would say “I done xxx”

I know people (East Midlands) who’d say “I seen this brilliant thread on MN etc”

Send her to see Henry Higgins?

It may be normal for some, but it will be an issue at an accountancy practice.

It is worth correcting with the rules rather than hoping she’ll copy you, or simply ignoring it. Colloquial use of technically incorrect grammar in many formal situations (written or spoken) can disadvantage you. And knowing the rule generally does help people to get it right.

Nothing helpful to add re the grammar (other than to note this is very common in Scotland too - I'm Scottish) but just wondered about the colleagues sniggering about shaking hands. I don't get it? I shake hands with my right hand as I'm right handed but wouldn't find someone shaking hands with their left hand odd. Am I missing something?!

All the rules are very confusing. Encourage her to read and listen to factual programmes or the news on tv or radio. She will hear how sentences are constructed.

I would focus on learning that it's 'I did the shopping' , but I have done the shopping'. Done goes with have.

What's confusing her is irregular verbs, i. e. ones with their own special rules - they change in unpredictable ways, hence irregular.

She wants to talk about something that happened in the past.
Regular verbs (doing words, jump in the example below) are easy.
I jumped over the puddle.
I have jumped over the puddle.
Both are correct, and both make jump into jumped by adding 'ed' to show it was in the past.

Irregular forms you have to learn.
I threw the ball.
I have thrown the ball.
(As you say, throwed would be wrong in both cases)

If she gets ate right:
I ate dinner.
I have eaten dinner.
Then maybe tell her did is like ate; you use both without have. Done is like eaten; you use it with have.

So instead of saying 'I have just been shopping' people are saying 'I just went shopping'. 'I went shopping yesterday' would be correct because the time is specified.
I don't think I just went shopping sounds right. It seems to focus on the going rather than the shopping.
'where have you been?' 'I just went shopping'.
'have we got any beans?' 'yes, I have done the shopping'.

It’s a normal way of speaking for many people around the country. Calling your friend “technically English” is a bit off for me.

I am surprised at people saying English grammar is "hard" and "confusing". It really isn't. I'm surprised that people haven't learnt these rules at school. My children learn English as a second language at school and they all know this! It seems to be a failing of the system if someone literally doesn't know what the standard past tense of their own language is whether they use it in conversation or not.

The left hand for shaking was to do with showing trust — you drop your shield whilst letting the other person keep hold of their weapon.

The (less bloodthirsty) explanation is that it's closer to the heart, so is a sign of friendship. Pragmatically, it's easier to make the Scout salute when you do it that way around too!

I remember Destination English text books for ESL. They were good and I can recommend them. Start with the lower levels, maybe B1. English has 12 tenses, million rules and thousands of exceptions from the rules AND exceptions from the exceptions😂

And the irregular verbs... She just has to memorise them. Eventually they will stick

For a simple quick fix you could tell her that she is not pronouncing one important element before done. And that she needs to use a little ‘ve (for have) before saying done? And if she’s talking about a he, she or it, she will need to include a ‘s (for has)? I’ve done.. She’s done... good luck! I think fixing the use of simple past (did) and past participle (have done) would be more complicated. There are differences between the UK and the US that make it all more confusing.

If you try to teach you friend the grammatical rules, she'll get confused. I'd get confused! Generally people only know the reasons behind why we say what we say if we study English to a high academic level, or when we learn a foreign language.
She needs to read, and then you need to model.
If she has specifically asked you to help her stop making those mistakes, you can have "role play" type conversations with her, where you model the correct grammar. Hearing and reading it in context is far more effecting that trying to learn past imperfect etc.
It is a dialect issue. DH's family are from Essex. Most of the would say "I seen that" etc. DH doesn't as he's lived in London for years. However, my DC's are London born and bred, and I am constantly correcting them "it's "GO TO the park", not "go park""!
Mind you, I was chatting to a neighbour the other day who's fairly well to do, so to speak", and he said "I'm gonna go supermarket now". I was probably visibly shocked .

@Stickybeaksid - I'm Irish and I've never heard "I done the laundry". I have heard "I did the laundry" or "I have done the laundry".

Is it that common in Ireland? Is it part of the translation from Gaeilge to English do you think? Translation of the verb "déan" maybe??

I speak entirely correctly, from a grammatical point of view, but have no idea how or why.

I doubt that anyone understands their own language grammatically, it's what one's brought up to speak, all languages, not just English. It's only when learning another language that grammatical structure becomes clearer. Until I started to learn French at 11 I doubt that I had heard the word 'tense' in the sense of language.