Not listed on title deed of DH's overseas house

[tippingpoint14]

DH bought a house in country A just before we met. He's just finished paying it off. Been married five years when we bought our place in country B where we now live.

I contributed a significant deposit to our house that I had saved over the years before we met. The house is in both names. Yet his house OS is only in his name.

He says we can't change the title deed to include me unless we are physically there. We've visited a couple of times since we married but it never seemed to get done for various reasons. He's been there a couple of times alone since but says I also need to physically be there to make the change, which I won't be able to do for some time.

I'm struggling to understand why we can't add my name from afar, but I'm not familiar with the ins and outs of these things.

Does anyone have any knowledge that could shed some light?

[Andromache77]

No idea on Polish law but in many jurisdictions this could only be done as a donation (gift), which would entail paying the corresponding gift tax, as you would not have a claim on pre-marital assets. And bear in mind that real estate is governed by the law of the place where it is located.

However, in case of a divorce you could always ask your lawyer to add it to the inventory of marital assets and have its value, if not the actual title, included in the calculation, they will know if this can done or not.

[tippingpoint14]

It’s being rented out and we use the money to help pay bills.

[Josette77]

So you split your mortgage and the rental goes towards bills?

[7salmonswimming]

You’ve said you don’t know what the relevant laws are, so how do you know he’s not right? I know 3 countries off the top of my head where you need to be physically present in front of a notary (or equivalent) to transfer property.

You’re hinting at something (that he’s deliberately keeping it separate from you) in a way that’s not going to fix your problem. Just address it head on. Much quicker, much better use of your time and energy. Maybe he’ll reveal he bought it for his ageing parents and actually to redress the balance you draw up a deed of trust for your property in Country B protecting your share.

[tippingpoint14]

@FizzyGreenWater Thanks for your advice.

It’s really not possible for us to go to sort out the deeds right now. I should have insisted when we had the chance but without going into too much detail it just didn’t happen. I know if the situation were reversed I would have made sure it happened. I’m really unsure whether it’s possible to change the deed from afar, but in 2019 I find it strange it couldn’t be done.

Do you think it’s financially abusive to have expected me to pay half the mortgage while on maternity leave? I scrimped and saved as much as I could so I could feel like I was contributing half, but look back now and get rather pissed off that I had to do that while he was spending up big on his hobbies.

[NotSuchASmugMarriedNow1]

He says we can't change the title deed to include me unless we are physically there.

And is he correct in saying this?

[tippingpoint14]

@7salmonswimming I don’t know, that’s why I’m asking. I have addressed it with him head on many, many times. He insists we just haven’t got around to it but that it will happen.

[Josette77]

Have you looked into it yourself? Although it sounds like you are benefiting from it regardless.

[tippingpoint14]

@NotSuchASmugMarriedNow1 I don’t know. That’s why I’m asking! It’s difficult for me to find out because I don’t speak the language but thought there might be people on MN who might know.

[7salmonswimming]

I don’t see what you’re getting at. If you don’t believe him, the issue is that your husband lies to you, not title deeds to a house in Poland. If you do believe him, then just wait till it happens.

[IlonaRN]

Do you think it’s financially abusive to have expected me to pay half the mortgage while on maternity leave? I scrimped and saved as much as I could so I could feel like I was contributing half, but look back now and get rather pissed off that I had to do that while he was spending up big on his hobbies.

Yes, it was. He should have covered most, if not all, the costs while you had less/no money coming in.

[Stegosaurus1990]

I really don’t see why this is important to you? If you divorced it would still be taken into consideration...

[tippingpoint14]

@7salmonswimming Yes, lying is an issue. I am trying to find out if he is lying about this particular thing. If he is, the issue is more than lying. It’s about my financial security.

[ThatsMeInTheSpotlight]

You'd probably be better starting a thread called 'Any Polish MNers who know about buying property?'

You need to speak to a lawyer. They will be able to look into the situation with the Polish house and also advise you on whether you're entitled to include it as a marital asset or not. Since the rental is contributing to joint bills, it sounds as though you are currently benefiting from the property.

[BernadetteRostankowskiWolowitz]

Does he use the income from the Polish house to cover his half of the mortgage and bills or to cover the whole lot before you both then split the rest?

[FizzyGreenWater]

Do you think it’s financially abusive to have expected me to pay half the mortgage while on maternity leave? I scrimped and saved as much as I could so I could feel like I was contributing half,



YES.

Is it just your baby then? Not his? You've had your own baby for fun and it just belongs to you? I'm guessing no!

You BOTH decided to have a family TOGETHER, this hits the FAMILY finances as one person's work now has to be diverted towards caring for the baby instead of earning money. But that's a hit both PARENTS take as the baby is - both of their baby!

You can even look at it the other way around - you are ALREADY the one compromising your career, the one having to be on maternity leave/possibly downgrading hours etc. If anything, he should be damn pleased that he gets to have a family AND to continue his career unabated!

This is not normal AT ALL in a couple who are a team.

I think you're right to be worried about the property situation. I'd go to a lawyer now in fact and see if you can possibly get a ring fence agreement in retrospect, for your deposit - don't see how it can really be done though.

[HUZZAH212]

Personally I'd make an appointment with a solicitor and ask them to advise. I completely get what you're saying in regards to if it had been the other way around you'd have made sure his name was transferred to the deeds. However, if you're now considering divorce, would you really have been so keen to hand over a big chunk of pre marriage assets with the recourse he could then claim that? A solicitor can advise regarding the ring fencing of the equity you put into your joint home, subsequent joint finances into the rental, and equality regarding your half payments whilst on maternity which benefited him more in relation to childcare.

[NotSuchASmugMarriedNow1]

You need to consult a bilingual lawyer based in the UK who specialises in property law in the other country, and ask them the question, then you'll have your answer.

It's no good asking random mumsnetters.

[FizzyGreenWater]

Are you still on mat leave? First thing I'd do is stop contributing right now, put what you have in savings and be as bullish as possible about getting money in your own name.

[TeacupDrama]

laws are different in different places regarding pre- marital assets and inheritances in fact there are differences between England and Scotland in that in Scotland an inheritance is not considered a marital asset and you can't disinherit your children

it maybe that the house in Poland could be seen partly as a pre-marital asset ; say he paid the equivalent of 100k and had paid off 70k when you married, the 70k part could be considered a pre-marital asset, while the other 30k now paid off is a joint asset to be shared so technically his share is 85K and your share is 15K ( half the 30K paid off with marital income)
in terms of asset split post divorce who could argue that a certain percentage of the Polish house is yours ( example above is 15%) and this should be taken into account when splits assets regardless of whose name is on deeds and that the ongoing rental income is part of his assets so you should get more of some other asset

[tippingpoint14]

@FizzyGreenWater Bloody hell. How the fark did I end up here...

[tippingpoint14]

@FizzyGreenWater No, but I’m part time. Still paying half the mortgage though so don’t have much left over to save. Surely whatever I did save would be split in the event of divorce though?

[mrsbyers]

In the UK you can ask a solicitor to draw up a document which details the financial consideration into a property - nothing to do with being married just details if one party contributed equity that should be returned first in the event of the property being sold.

[LazyDaisey]

No, you have to do it person. It requires a lawyer and a notary too.

Also, you’re a foreigner, so I’m not sure what the law is about you owning property and also Brexit.

That said, if something were to happen, you and children automatically inherit the house and any will he makes in UK will be upheld in Poland as U.K. is his permanent residence.

[7salmonswimming]

Tipping, you’re chasing your own tail, asking strangers on the internet about Polish law on transferring property. You’re following his lead, allowing him to dictate, going by his timetable. That’s why you’re feeling vulnerable. If you think you’ve put yourself in a financially punitive position, take control of the situation and rectify it.

The best time to have done that was when your bought in Country B. That ship has sailed. If you have a mortgage on this house, tell him that unless he pays enough of the mortgage on it to equal your deposit, you’re going to walk. The alternative is that you get an equivalent share of the Polish house. (Personally I wouldn’t want that, I’d want the house I’m living in with my child, but everyone’s different).

If you think it hasn’t come to that, divorce is too extreme, you can’t break up the family over this blah blah - well, this whole thread is a non-point. You lost control of the situation when you went into Country B house 50/50. He holds the cards. This is all you’ve got left. Besides/also, if he’s taking you for a ride financially that tells you what you need to know about the man you’re married to. I’d be filling in my divorce petition faster than you could blink, no way would I stand for such disrespect (any type of abuse, btw, nothing specific about financial abuse).