Not listed on title deed of DH's overseas house

[tippingpoint14]

DH bought a house in country A just before we met. He's just finished paying it off. Been married five years when we bought our place in country B where we now live.

I contributed a significant deposit to our house that I had saved over the years before we met. The house is in both names. Yet his house OS is only in his name.

He says we can't change the title deed to include me unless we are physically there. We've visited a couple of times since we married but it never seemed to get done for various reasons. He's been there a couple of times alone since but says I also need to physically be there to make the change, which I won't be able to do for some time.

I'm struggling to understand why we can't add my name from afar, but I'm not familiar with the ins and outs of these things.

Does anyone have any knowledge that could shed some light?

[LazyDaisey]

I’m really sorry but you’re not going to be able to get a super straight answer on this from a solicitor because Brexit. The laws will differ for EU members and non members. For example, your husband should have been declaring the rent from Poland to HMRC and it’s considered his U.K. taxable income (I learned that little gem from their website as I don’t know anyone who actually does it or how the U.K. govt could possibly enforce that)

There’s very strict laws everywhere regarding property due to money laundering, so I’m actually surprised you can add a random person to your deed in U.K. without having to be present. In the US, you can’t even sell a property and have the money go into your U.K. account. It has to be a US account (money laundering).

[vivacian]

Given your situation OP, if you come back to this thread, I think you should post in Relationships. AIBU was not a good choice. I also think that you need support IRL. Therapist, lawyer etc.

[m00rfarm]

Watch out for tax implications. Also, if you have a house in a different country then the will needs to be written to take you into account. Most countries do not uphold wills written in a different country. And having a will that names you is the first thing you need to do. After that, you can then see what has to be done to make you a part owner. it could be that to do this, you need to pay stamp duty for a second time (for example).

[Itsjustmee]

How long have you been married
If it’s not long then you might stand a much better chance of getting a higher percentage of the uk house / assets deposit back
The longer you leave it the more chance you have of being screwed over financially

[BlouseAndSkirt]

Oh, hod, sorry OP.

I didn't read your post properly and see that you ARE married.

OP, he is abusive and horrible, and none of that is your fault.

You need legal advice, as you are seeking - but do post in legal, and make it clear it is about Polish Deeds in the title, and stay away from AIBU - Relationships is a much more supportive board to talk about your marriage.

[LemonTT]

This is not the place to get advice. You need to understand the risks the situation gives rise to. Then decide what, if anything, you want to do.

There is probably more than one risk.

If you were to divorce in England it will be listed as an asset and it’s value included in any consideration by mediators or the court. That’s probably the least risky outcome.

There are some silly games he can play. That he may attempt to dispose of the asset and hid the receipts in anticipation of divorce action.

The other question is what would happen if he dies without a will or with a will that excludes you. It might end up going to a sibling or parent under polish law. Do you know what is in your wills?

[Ginkypig]

Sorry cross post!

What I said still stands and I wasn't trying to dig at you but your last post shows I could have been nicer in how I worded it.


It's hard to grow up thinking everyone saw blue only to realise what you thought was blue everyone else saw as green. It kicks you in the teeth to realise you didn't know any better and your normal was really not and you deserved better. I think you have bigger issues than the house op but it seems your are starting to realise this and this thread is probably a reflection on that.

I hope you start other threads to gain advice about the rest of the picture because it's very likely from the little I have read here so far that you deserve much better than this and I hope here or somewhere else can help you with that.

[mumwon]

//www.coupleseurope.eu/en/poland/topics/2-is-there-a-statutory-matrimonial-property-regime-and-if-so-what-does-it-provide/

[Ginkypig]

He doesn't need to put your name on the house, he bought it and paid for it outright but to be honest you were very silly to not ringfence your deposit before splitting the equity of the other house.

You have contributed far more to one of the houses than he has and yet if things ended in divorce he will walk away with one whole house and half the other.

If I were you I would see about setting up a contract that he signs giving you your deposit back before then splitting the proceeds of the house equally after that or him putting your name on the title deeds of the other house. You are either sharing or you are walking away with your separate entitlements fairly the set up now is massively unfair to you as it stands.

Personally I think he should keep the Poland house as he obviously doesn't want you to have it and really it's so much hassle that you probably wouldn't either but I would want the deposit then have the proceeds of the uk home.

[vodkajellytime]

I'm not entirely sure of this but I believe the law relating to divorce and division of assets will depend on your country of residence.
So, if you're resident in England, English law relating to divorce and division of assets will prevail. I'm not a lawyer though so you really need to get legal advice ASAP. If you're in England, don't move!

[tippingpoint14]

On that note, I'm shutting down my computer for a bit. Feeling shit enough about everything as it is.

Thanks to all those who offered advice.

[tippingpoint14]

@vivacian I can't speak for other women who find themselves in shit situations, but here goes.

Up until very recently I was under the impression my upbringing was okay. Not great, but okay. Most people who would have observed our family would have thought so too. However, my parents hated each other and the whole family is repressed.

My mother has never told me she loves me, and has instead spent my life tearing me down. Every. Chance. She. Gets. I was sexually assaulted at one point by a "friend". Stupidly told her and she told me to just "ignore that silly man" and never mentioned it again. Laughed it off.

She knows a few things about my husband that a "normal" mother would tell her daughter aren't right and encourage her to leave. Yet she cuts me off when I talk, rolls her eyes and throws me under the bus when he is around so they can both have at me. She's told me I'm lucky to have him.

I'm a big girl now and starting to realise how wrong this all is. But when you grow up like this you think it's normal. You attract a certain type of person and it just strengthens the idea of normality.

So this is one example of how "ffs... women get in to this kind of relationship and have kids in this kind of situation".

[floraloctopus]

Do you think it’s financially abusive to have expected me to pay half the mortgage while on maternity leave?

It's hardly what a decent husband would do is it? I'd say it was certainly extremely unreasonable.

[HUZZAH212]

Is DH a Polish national?

[Ferretyone]

@tippingpoint14

Should you be [in view of what you say] contemplating divorce then it does not matter [legally] whose names are "on the deeds". The court will ask for a form ["Form E"] from each party on which all assets are listed. The starting point is 50:50

[Nanny0gg]

Definitely get legal advice. You're being taken for a ride. And hang on to your rebate!
Ducks in a row time...

[NotStayingIn]

Yes he is financially abusive. I would get a lawyer. Sorry you are in this situation OP but it’s great you are now aware. The trick he pulled with getting you to contribute evenly whilst on maternity is disgusting. You should have put your foot down then, but I get that at the time it’s all a bit overwhelming.

Take legal action now before you get screwed over even more. I would use the tax rebate you got for that, it will be a wise investment in your future.

[vivacian]

Sorry OP, it makes me angry and scared reading this, and it just gets worse.

[BlouseAndSkirt]

OP you have not set this thread up in a way that makes it easy to help you.
Plus there have been spectacular lapses in comprehension by lots pf posters.

I suggest you post in Legal, put Poland in the title and get some informed advice.

Poland house: For how many years did your money pay towards it? Have you got a record or proof of your contributions to that house?
You need to ask specifically about the law in Poland, but as you are not married and if your name is not on the deeds, I would guess it would be hard to claim. You could always ask]k a Polish lawyer here to advise you.

You house here: when you buy a property jointly with someone else you can buy it as 'joint tenants' or as 'tenants in common'. As joint tenants you own it as a partnership and automatically own half, and if one dies the other owner inherits their share. As tenants in common you can have a deed that says exactly what proportion you own and how much deposit you put in. The solicitor should have talked this through with you when you bought?

If you are on maternity leave you are now operating as a family team, for the time being, he has a wage coming in but you are providing the childcare for your joint child that enables him to earn. So it is extremely unreasonable to expect that financial contributions remain the same. What is equal in terms of payments is not always what is fair.

[tippingpoint14]

@vivacian Thanks. Makes me feel much better and really helpful.

[vivacian]

I'm never completely sure how much he earns because it fluctuates, but he would earn at least double what I do. Often more.

FFS why do women get in to this kind of relationship and have kids in this kind of situation.

[isspacethefinalfrontier]

Why does it matter op? It's all marital assets now?

Maybe, maybe not. What is the legal position in Poland?

[ScreamingLadySutch]

Yes that is what my ex did.

But you are still entitled to half under British law

[tippingpoint14]

@Nanny0gg Our conversations end in fights and things don't get resolved.

I'm never completely sure how much he earns because it fluctuates, but he would earn at least double what I do. Often more.

We have a joint account for the mortgage and we have always paid half each into it - even while I was on mat leave. We also have a joint account for bills and we were always putting an equal amount into that too, up until some time after I went back to work when I said I was going to pay less given I would only have about a fiver left over each week. I also pay my phone and other bills myself so literally couldn't pay them otherwise. So I started paying a bit less towards the joint account for bills.

He says he makes up for it because he pays for groceries and petrol. The amount in the joint account was never enough to pay the bills so he would add to it when necessary. Now that we have the rent money (though it's not much) it goes into that account and has taken a bit of the stress off.

The lack of action on his OS assets is part of many concerns of mine. We recently did our tax and whereas I will receive a return because I paid too much he will owe money because he didn't pay enough. When we left the accountant he said he was relieved for my return so it could pay off his debt. Then said he would pay his ongoing tax out of our rent earnings from now on. Both comments had me taken aback.

[HUZZAH212]

@Vivican OP isn't getting a hard time. She's just being advised to seek proper legal advice. Unless someone on MN has been in her exact circumstances then they can't give her proper advice. Plus that's still unlikely to be legally qualified advice. It's not going to stand up in court that 'mummyof1' on MN said 'well XYZ will happen' 🙄