Why do tenants have to pay council tax?

[Goodnightseamer]

It's a domestic property tax. But tenants don't own any property, so they're paying tax on something they don't own. They didn't use to have to pay rates, but they have to pay council tax. Why? NB council tax is not a tax for use of services so that argument doesn't wash. It is a tax where liability is created by the existence of a domestic property. Which tenants clearly do not own.

Council tax bands however are unfair in my opinion. A single person in a mansion utilises less council services than a house share of 4 adults in a small property.

The supposed idea is that people should pay for the services that are provided (whether they will use them or not) according to their means - and this is crudely judged with reference to where they live. It is assumed that a single person in the position to be able to own/pay a mortgage for/pay rent for a mansion will be much better off than four adults who 'have to' share a small place between them.

In practice, it takes no account of groups such as the elderly, who bought a reasonably-priced family house several decades ago, are now widowed, children all grown up and left and whose house happens to have shot up in value because of crazy property inflation.

It's the same blunt approach as the idea that, the bigger your car (and therefore its emissions), the richer you are. Never mind that you might be very tall, have a big family, have personal/medical needs which require you to transport bulky equipment etc.

Similarly, there are people who deliberately choose to live in modest houses, maybe shared with several others, because they prefer to spend money on expensive holidays, clothes, lifestyles etc. Entirely their choice, but they get to pay less than they could probably afford, just because they don't prioritise a big house in their spending of what might be substantial means/earnings.

It sounds as if you won’t be content until your ll goes bankrupt and the bank gives you the house you rent. Idk where you think this free money comes from.

@GoodGriefSunshine I agree that this is one of the more bizarre glitches in the system. It can also lead to all sorts of problems for tenants. Years ago i was a tenant in a shared house, under an assured shorthold so not an HMO, so council tax liability rested on the tenants. But there had been over two years various people coming and going, some of them working, some on benefits, some students, all there perfectly legally and signed in/off the tenancy agreement with no irregularities but the council tax situation was utterly horrendous due to differences in liability within the household which also shifted every six months. By the time I got there, nobody knew who the fuck should be paying anything, there were penalties, arrears and judgements all over the place, the entire thing was a mess. I should imagine this is fairly common.

How would billing for something like police or teachers or road maintenance work?

Schools would bill parents per term,
Road maintenance-car tax
Library’s would charge

it would weed out the unimportant services. If a service didn’t get used, it wouldn’t get funded

It’s to pay for the council services you use and the police. It’s laid out how it’s spent on the leaflet that comes with your council tax bill.

Well this is a bizarre thread

There's no point in a library that charges a fee, that would essentially be a bookstore.

People who own cars are not the only ones who benefit from roads; buses, bikes, etc., also benefit.

Back to the police; what if someone has a crime committed against them and they can't afford to pay? They just don't report it? Potentially putting other people in danger is the person isn't caught.

The same with the fire department; if my house catches fire and I can't afford to pay the fire department's bill, do I just let it burn down?

Road maintenance-car tax

Road lights are just for car drivers.

Road tax is a tax. So why is that tax ok?

I've never before heard anyone suggest that they shouldn't pay council tax because they don't own a property they live in. In days gone by I believe rents could be 'inclusive', ie cover the council tax or rates as it used to be, rents were higher because of that, but certainly I've not heard of that in recent times.

I rented when I was younger and never thought twice about paying council tax, neither did anyone else. Not my landlord's business, they didn't live there. Landlord's responsibility was maintaining the property, fixing anything that went wrong.

Council tax pays for: planning, transport, highways, police, fire, libraries, leisure and recreation, rubbish collection and disposal, environmental health and trading standards - maybe more. A renter has all that, same as an owner occupier and we all have to pay for those services.

Council tenants always paid rates, just not in one big payment, it wasn't part of the rent, it was added on top of the rent. I have paid rates and council tax as both a council tenant and a home owner. If tenants didn't pay council tax but the owners did they would just bump the rents up even more.

Surely nobody believes that council-provided services don't need to be paid for?

Maybe we could keep the existing scheme whereby people who own/mortgage their own homes continue to pay council tax, so the costs among the home-owning community are spread and economies of scale can be had (how much would it cost if each house/street had to buy their own bin lorry?)

Meanwhile, the people who, as a demographic, consume the same services and live very similar lives as the homeowners, but just happen not to be in a position to own/mortgage the house they live in could be made to pay for their services separately.

They wouldn't have to pay towards schools if they have no children, towards the fire brigade if they don't ever call them out or for social/residential care if they're lucky enough not to need it - but if they do subsequently find themselves needing an extremely expensive service then, instead of paying a monthly contribution like the homeowners, they could simply be landed with a bill for £100K+ which they would have to foot entirely by themselves - or otherwise have to do without it.

This scheme could really work well in communities and punish those people who, although often working very hard, can't manage to get a foot on the property ladder - make them properly feel like the second-class citizens they should be arbitrarily treated as. We would need to find a name for it, though. How about 'Apartheid'....

It’s not property tax!

It’s for council services for the people living in the property.

That is why.

If no one lives there you have a totally different rate.

Road tax is a tax. So why is that tax ok?
It’s not, it should be replaced with toll roads.

The bills for fire would end up being covered by insurance,

As for the police, not sure if the victim or offender should pay, they should probably share the cost.

It’s services, police, fire, bins...do tenants not use these?

You sound angry and ill-informed and GOADY

Road tax is a tax. So why is that tax ok?

There’s no such thing as road tax, it’s vehicle tax.

It’s not, it should be replaced with toll roads

You said car tax

Again, street lights aren't just for cars. They are mainly for pedestrians. So Toll paths?

If someone doesnt feel safe walking around at night, but cant afford to contribute, then they are on a curfew? Do people who pay get given an idea to prove they paid?

As for the police, not sure if the victim or offender should pay, they should probably share the cost.

If the victim cant afford to pay? Or the offender cant? What happens, someone is mugged and wants to call the police, they have to track down the offender and get their promise to pay?

Is a shared service. For which we all pay. Your systems would really screw over the poorest people.

Suspect you are FMOTL, because everyone knows they havent got a clue either

There’s no such thing as road tax, it’s vehicle tax.

I know that. I was quoting the poster who says tax is theft but then talks about road tax. I asked why that type of tax would be ok.

it would weed out the unimportant services. If a service didn’t get used, it wouldn’t get funded

Just because the vast majority of people in society are fortunate enough not to need a service does not render it unimportant to those who do need it. Would you also say that wheelchair access ramps to public buildings are unimportant because the majority of people are lucky enough not to have to rely on them?

Suspect you are FMOTL no idea what that means.

Also are street lights really needed?

Also are street lights really needed?
Yes

What a batshit thread.

OP, just tell the Council you don't want to have a rubbish collection. If your house catches fire, you don't want the fire brigade to bother (after all, it's not your house, so why should you worry?) If you're burgled, you don't need the police as you can catch your own criminals, thanks very much. Then you will have no reason to pay your council tax bill at all.

It’s not a tax on owning a property, it’s a tax on living in it. And the council certainly does use the money to collect the bins and grit the roads and maintain the street lighting etc etc which all benefit the residents not absent owners.

Maybe wheelchair ramps could be pay per use, like toll roads; put in some coins, the arm goes up, you use the ramp. 😒

So the landlord should pay the council tax where they live (for services they use) and then also for all the services used by all their tenants too?!