Why do tenants have to pay council tax?

[Goodnightseamer]

It's a domestic property tax. But tenants don't own any property, so they're paying tax on something they don't own. They didn't use to have to pay rates, but they have to pay council tax. Why? NB council tax is not a tax for use of services so that argument doesn't wash. It is a tax where liability is created by the existence of a domestic property. Which tenants clearly do not own.

[Zebulon2002]

If the Landlord paid it then he would only add it to the rent for you to pay in effect.

In theory it pays for the local services such as refuse, cleaning, police, maybe some transport

[CleansUpDragonPoo]

@UhareFouxisci Mon 18-Nov-19 14:43:41
"You are only able to make money on your spare property because there is another family out there who could have afforded their own home if prices hadn't been able to spiral out of control, but are renting instead, and now face a retirement of extreme poverty because their pensions will never stretch to cover their rent, as a direct consequence of you being able to make your retirement more comfortable in this way.

You'd probably not be significantly worse off if you had sold the spare property when it wasn't needed, and invested the money in growing industries helping the economy to thrive and getting a good return on investment, and so have a decent lump sum to help your sons onto the property ladder when the time came. And if the ownership of multiple properties was controlled as I outlined above, that lump sum for your sons would buy a lot more house too, so your whole family could benefit without having trodden on those more disadvantaged than you to get there.

So renting out a well-maintained property at below market rate which I saved for and bought by dint of hard work and going without is treading on those more disadvantaged? If I'd waited to invest I wouldn't be able to afford to buy either. And as for investing the money in growing industries helping the economy - like what growing industries exactly? Car manufacture? Steel? Royal Mail? Bitcoins? I would have lost money on all of those. But perhaps that's what's wanted, for everyone to be dragged down to the same level rather than trying to work your way up.

I'm not ashamed of finally being comfortable after many years of scrimping, and send best wishes to those trying to provide for themselves like I did. The rest of the 'she's got more than me it's not fair' brigade can get lost.

[Usernumbers1234]

@BillHadersNewWife

Australia doesn’t have high property values because of basic economics.

Look at Australia on the map, then look at the population.
Then look at the UK, Then look at the population.

[Usernumbers1234]

When you buy a house in the UK you buy the land it sits on. That land is worth a whole lot more than the equivalent land in Australia. That’s how Australia manages to do it.

[Patte]

I don't think it really matters who pays it - if landlords did, it would just get included in a higher rent.

Surely though, the single person discount implies it's for use of local services rather than being a property tax?

[randomchatter]

BillHadersNewWife

'you must live in an awful area'

You'd think so wouldn't you! I've recently moved back to the town I grew up in so thought I'd feel 'at home' - Greater London and a 30 min LT commute to Central London so property prices and CT aren't cheap. Very different today of course but I find that there are Landlords and then there are LANDLORDS! Some care less for 'the community' than the tenants they moan about.

Often I think that buy to let should require a 70% + cash deposit and that, naturally, more REAL affordable homes /starter homes (private and council run) should be built across the country, so that there is real choice for everyone.

Landlords should be responsible for the upkeep of their properties as well as the communities they're in. If Landlords are based overseas or outside 'the community', they're less inclined to care about things like fly-tipping or the general aesthetics of the street or town.

It's often said that people don't have a right to buy or a choice in where we live but why does anyone have a right to buy to let on the cheap?

[SiliconHeaven]

Council tax is a system of local taxation collected by local authorities. It is a tax on domestic property.
Source: www.citizensadvice.org.uk/housing/council-tax/council-tax/

[SiliconHeaven]

It’s got fuck all to do with the valuation tribunal @JassyRadlett, they can give change a property’s band if it is incorrect and that may result in a refund of over paid council tax. Different from a resident wanting £3.50 back because their recycling was missed.

[JassyRadlett]

It’s got fuck all to do with the valuation tribunal @JassyRadlett, they can give change a property’s band if it is incorrect and that may result in a refund of over paid council tax. Different from a resident wanting £3.50 back because their recycling was missed.

I’m not saying - and neither are they - that council tax is a service charge with refundable elements if the service is not delivered.

But is is factually incorrect to state that this is a pure property tax. Simply saying it over and over doesn’t make it true, and yes, the judicial appeal body for the issue has a tiny bit more credibility in ruling what form of taxation it is than you do.

[JassyRadlett]

(And the CA page undermines itself immediately by stating that it’s a property tax, then listing the ways that make it clear it’s a hybrid of personal and property taxation.)

[BinkyBaa]

I can understand passing the bill to tenants, but I wish there would be a discount for renting in the higher bands. I live in an area with relatively cheap rent but very high council tax.

They're all historic listed buildings turned into hundreds of poorly maintained flats that havent been updated since the 1940s (possibly in part due to the listed status making them hard to modify). We pay the same council tax as the wealthy for tiny single glazed, drafty and mouldy flats.
It doesnt seem fair to pay the full rate for a luxury building if we dont have the power to do up the insides that we'd have if we owned.

[couchparsnip]

Binky Baa. You can appeal your banding if you've been there less than 6 months. If you've been there longer you can have a band review from the Valuation Office Agency.
They can't take into account lack of repair and maintenance but might look at low rents and the fact they are listed and can't be altered.
If you can find something nearby which is the same size in a lower band then that would help your case.
The Valuation Office's website has links to the Council Tax List which contains every property in the country. Cross reference with rightmove and if you're in the wrong band you should be able to find another property to prove it.

[thisonehasalittlecar]

I'm going to bang the drum again for LLs paying it. I think it would bring the cost down for everyone because there would be far less defaulting and it would mean it was paid on every property, not just ones where there are no students/benefit recipients living in it. Yes you would lose the single occupancy discount but the taxes would be lower overall. I don't begrudge our tenants who receive this at all but I do resent paying double council tax on our unoccupied properties as a supposed incentive to get them let, when the resulting financial burden is preventing us from doing the necessary work to get them rentable.

[thisonehasalittlecar]

Uhare that may be true in expensive areas but where I live most of our tenants could buy for similar mortgage payments as they pay in rent.

[mencken]

don't know about the rest of the country, but in my area council tax gets charged on every property, empty or not. empty for two years (why? Sell it, drop the price!) and the council tax doubles.

if tenants want landlord to pay it, fine. It will go straight on the rent and my property would go up 25% - not London. Doesn't make any difference to outgoings

and the usual suspects on here can rest assured that the council go straight after the landlord when the tenant stops paying - even if the tenancy is continuing and so the landlord cannot enter or relet the place.

[Gbtch]

Why so many anti landlord comments? Without private landlords where would all those renters live? Not many council properties about.

[Stupiddriver1]

If landlords had to pay it they’d just put the rent up to cover it....so it would make no difference.

[Toomuchtrouble4me]

council tax is not a tax for use of services so that argument doesn't wash
Yes it is.
That’s why the rich lived it when Maggie bought it in - because the rich paid Rates so the council tax was cheaper.
I lived on a boundary road between Camden and Westminster ( it’s actually called boundary road) on the Camden side we’re all council flats. On the Westminster side we’re mainly large private houses.
The people in the council flats in Camden paid much much more council tax than the rich in the Westminster homes. I remember Clement Freud lived in a great big detached house opposite our little flat but we had to pay more. Hence the protests.
Camden was £49.00 and Westminster was £12.00.
However, back on point - it is for services.

[Toomuchtrouble4me]

And private tenants should pay - HA and Council tenants have to.

[woodhill]

Perhaps the Camden council needed more funds?

[WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll]

Ironically, council tax in more affluent areas is likely to be proportionally cheaper across the board than in poorer or even deprived areas.

If the council needs to take in a certain amount of money via council tax to pay for the necessary services, it will be nested according to property values (based on nationally-defined values), but if there is a large proportion of lower-value houses and not many expensive ones, more of the total revenue will need to come from those in lower-banded properties; so the tax due for a band A, B or C will be higher than it would in a wealthier area, where a much greater proportion of the houses will be in bands F, G & H.

[Alenia45]

OP are you basically arguing about the fact it's called a tax? Technically you're right, it isn't a TAX it's a service charge. So if that's where you're going on that, totally get it and have pointed it out to people locally.

But I can't agree with the fact the home owner should pay. The service charge is there to help fund the services people use in the fairest and easiest way to administer. There would be uproar if people were told they'd have to pay extra for the services through income tax, when in fact they do already pay a lot towards that anyway and council tax would be abolished so they wouldn't lose anything more.

Paying for each service seperatly would be a pain in the arse. I may never have used the police but I know they patrol the area some times, how would I pay towards that? I hope I'll never need to use the fire service but tell you what, if I did I would be gutted to watch my house burn then be expected to pay the hourly rate for X many fire persons and the use of a truck. And someone said insurance would cover it. Can you imagine the cost of insurance if that was to be included for car and house insurance!! Many can't afford it now, and I can guarantee once you paid for your bins, the libraries, street sweeping and whatever else, you would be spending a lot more than you do on council tax now.

[Thornhill58]

@Gbtch absolutely. Do people want to live under a bridge?

[FallenAngel01]

Your Council Tax bill tells you what is being spent, and where. Look at the top right of your bill. A percentage goes to the County Council, responsible for Highways, etc. Some goes towards policing. Some goes to the Town Council. Some goes to the Fire Service. More recently, some goes to Adult Services. It also tells you how much your bill has increased compared to last year.

[Vincenzo64]

Of course it's a property tax, it's based on the amount the property is valued at.