Why do tenants have to pay council tax?

[Goodnightseamer]

It's a domestic property tax. But tenants don't own any property, so they're paying tax on something they don't own. They didn't use to have to pay rates, but they have to pay council tax. Why? NB council tax is not a tax for use of services so that argument doesn't wash. It is a tax where liability is created by the existence of a domestic property. Which tenants clearly do not own.

My council tax is £226 a month!! I don’t love paying it as I’m sure no one does but I use the services so I have to....

Money is fungible. The pie chart you get sent could easily show something else instead. If council tax covers 25% of the spending of your local council and your local council spends 10% of its income on refuse collection and 15% on libraries, then your local council could decide that "council tax pays for refuse collection and libraries" and send you a pie chart showing just those two services.

The tax I don't like is national insurance. It allows the headline income tax rates to look like 20% and 40%, but it's more like 32% and 42% when you consider employee NIC. There's not as much difference between 32% and 42%. I appreciate that there are nuances around the figures, I have simplified somewhat.

For example, a tenant on minimum wage in a band A property here pays an additional 6.27% in council tax as a proportion of take-home pay after income tax and minimum pension payments levied against an asset they don't own.For someone on £50000, who is more likely to own the asset, council tax is 2.35% of what they take home after income tax and minimum pension contribution.

The likelihood is that someone earning £50k is in a house with a more expensive band than A, so will be paying more CT that way.

The higher earning person also pays a smaller % of their income than the person on Minimum wage if they buy a highly taxed packet of cigarettes. For everything with a fixed cost the impact of that spend is less for the higher earner in % terms.

But they will be paying more income tax, in absolute terms and as a %, they will have paid SDLT to buy their property, they will pay Inheritance Tax on it when they die, or else it will be sold to fund their adult care...while the renter on Min Wage will have their care costs covered by the highest expense paid for out of council tax....adult care services!

It to pay for bin emptying, schools, adult social care, etc. The total cost paid is also partly collected on behalf of Parish councils, go spend in on play equipment, cemeteries street lighting or anything else they do for thier Parish, plus part goes to the police and fire services.

It is not a domestic property tax, you are paying for facilities you use. Your landlord pays his on his property

this thread is impressive as the sillycow kneejerk anti-landlord brigade got there on the very first response. And no doubt are there at intervals throughout 13 pages of intermittent stupidity which I CBA to read.

don't like paying for services? Desert islands are available.

Jeremy, is that you?

Look OP, if it helps then, despite its name, think of it more as insurance rather than a tax.

People insure their houses and cars so that IF anything happens, the money will be there to put it right. Most people will never have to call on it. So if someone else's house burns down, your premiums will go towards their payout. If the same happened to you, then other people's premiums would be part of the money you get as compensation. What you're 'buying' is the knowledge that if the worst happens, you won't have to finds thousands of pounds to put it right.

So Council Tax - you're paying it so that IF your bins need emptying, they will be. IF you need to use a library it will be there. IF you have children and they go to school, there will be a school for them to go to. IF you need care in your old age there will be public funds to pay for it. Etc...

If you do turn out to need care in your old age, are you going to refuse to take it because tenants will have made a contribution to the cost?

Yes as a PP has explained, most fixed taxes are regressive. Unless you're going to abolish all taxes except PAYE, and increase the % rate accordingly, then there is no way round it. But somehow we have to pay for the things we take for granted. And as for the argument that council tax doesn't pay for these things because it only accounts for 25% of council expenditure, it's nonsense. It pays for 25% of the cost of schools, of lighting, of social care. The rets as you say comes from government, and much of it will have come from general taxation, you know, PAYE which is proportional to income.

If you live in a town and make use of the waste bins ,police services ,libraries and so on then you have to pay for them !(shock horror). I wasnt aware that Council tax was free at any time but not sure of this .You can apply for a reduction in council tax payments, if on a low income and have less than 16k in savings .

I think of council tax as a fee for services that the inhabitant uses.
where I live now doesn't have council tax, however we get yearly invoices for refuse collection, street maintenance, flood protection plus yearly property tax.

They didn't used to have to pay rates,but they have to pay council tax. That is incorrect. When I first moved into my council property,back in 1983,there was a rates payment included in our weekly rent.

Council tax pays for the following:

Planning, transport, highways, police, fire, libraries, leisure and recreation, rubbish collection and disposal, environmental health and trading standards in THE LOCAL AREA.

In other words, all the services you, as a tenant use, by living in that area. It’s a locally collected and spent tax. Look at your local council and they will explain precisely how the money is spent and how the banding is designated if everyone’s answers aren’t enough for you.

I don't know where you get 1988 from OP Community Charge was introduced in Scotland in 1989, and England and Wales in 1990.

I bet you voted to remain and will vote labour

That’s a gross insult to those of us who, not only do both those things but also understand why we pay our council tax.

Do the tenants not use services in their local area then?

"Are you for fucking real OP?
I bet you voted to remain and will vote labour"

I am totally against what the OP is wittering in about, but I voted remain (didn't vote Labour OR Tory). What the fuck is your point? Or are you just getting a pathetic dig in about the shit-show that is Brexit?

We found the council tax very expensive when it was first introduced. We had a mortgage too and young dc. It's expensive for home owners too.

As has been said tenants did have to pay rates, think they still do in NI.

In Scotland part of the council tax goes toward our water and sewerage. We dont get seperate water bills.

The biggest expenditure that comes out of council tax is education and social services. These are the big ticket items. Not refuse collection, trading standards or planning. If you list everything that’s provided for residents it’s enormous. The vast majority of police funding comes from central government.

Also some local authorities get no money from central government at all for most services. My county council for a start off. The central government grant varies a great deal according to where you live.

I find it staggering that people have not looked into where and how council tax is spent. It’s also dependent on the banding of the house and not income. There are also anomalies in banding of course. However if we want services we have to pay and all of us at some time have been educated and benefitted from education.

Today we had to replace the boiler on a rental house we own. Why should we pay for it if we don't use it? We don't benefit so why should we.
Why should we pay insurance in a house we don't live in?
It works both ways. Do you want me to pay twice for services I don't use?
I don't want to pay for care in the community because I don't use it but I have to because I can't pick and choose what services I want to pay.
There is cero logic in your thinking.

It's interesting the shift in attitudes towards this. Thirty years ago people were rioting on the streets over the shift to flat individual liability; now this is accepted as being because taxpayers are apparently consumers who buy services from councils.

@Thornhill58 I fail to see what landlords buying boilers has to do with tax but good for you anyway.

OP, council tax isn't a flat liability, it is graded based on your accommodation.
If you want to pay less council tax you can choose to live in a lower banded property.

@Thornhill58 - well made point. Shame it went over Op's head.... tumbleweed....

The council tax pays for council services and you use council services. Everyone does. Where do you think councils get their money from? Some is from the Government but a lot is raised from the Council tax.

Business rate payers don't even get their bins emptied... this thread is bizarre.