Imposter syndrome or just rude people

[Candlesandrust]

I'm a bit stuck, I don't know if a situation I've found myself in at work is just me over thinking or if the people involved are being unpleasant. Help please, here goes.

I think I'm a fairly intelligent, down to earth woman with a great many years of working experience behind me. I've worked in high profile Director roles, but I've taken a massive step away from this and now work in a stress free, calm environment in a role that I'm over qualified for. Not a problem, my choice entirely. My job is mostly housekeeping, cleaning, laundry but my employer is building his own website and has asked me to be involved in some of the meetings. My employer is extremely wealthy, has houses all over the world, Oxbridge educated, upper-class. I'm not, I worked bloody hard for everything I achieved.

So first of all I'm introduced at the meeting as Mr X's wife, not Candles. Blood starts to boil but I take it in my stride. As the meeting progresses, it becomes apparent marketing consultant who's helping to build the website is a social acquaintance of my employer. They start to discuss people/places they visit, assuming I wouldn't possibly visit these places as I'm not upper class enough. e.g. The Pig chain of hotels, why would I even know they exist.

As the meeting draws to a close I'm almost completely excluded from every part of the conversation, even though many of the people they know and visit, I also know or visit. It wasn't like I could butt in, it was a conversation, 'oh marketing consultant you'll know xxx, they're the Travel Editor in House and Garden', etc. Yawn and double yawn.

Am I being over sensitive because I am the cleaner/laundry woman, but I've been asked to attend this meeting because employer recognises I have experience in the area he's discussing. Or are they pompous, bilious twats?

Yes, your employer was rude (and sexist!) in introducing you as someone's wife!
I do feel you shouldn't be giving marketing advice/insight unless you are being given the right remuneration for it (which will, of course, increase your respect and value in their eyes.) It's also a blurring of your role.

@howismovingbungalow thanks that made me laugh. I used to laugh at these sorts of name dropping fools in my previous life. But then I wasn't excluded and it was assumed I was part of that life.

It's interesting how opinions are made on people due to the job they currently do, not what they've done, where they've travelled, what interests they have. Such short sightedness.

Hi OP

Only you will know if you have imposter syndrome but to me, it sounds much more like they were very rude.

Your boss on particular should have set the scene for the meeting, including why you were there. It sounds like the marketing person had no idea of your context.

Boss should have said something like: This is Diane, she's our housekeeper. I've asked her to sit in as previously, she was Marketing Director for Conde Nast so will have some useful insights. (Oh, by the way, Diane's husband is Brian Bond, our mutual friend).

That way, you would have been included.

Sounds like a really uncomfortable meeting for you.

If they ask you again, I would be reluctant and point out that you are busy with the cleaning, and if they insist, just sit there and daydream until they either actually address you or finish showing off to each other or whatever they are doing.

I'm paid well for my housekeeping role. £15 per hour which sort of reflects some of previous experience as he occasionally asks me to sort out an issue for him which an agency cleaner probably wouldn't do. For example, co-ordinate the repairs following a fairly large flood after water tank burst!

So I agreed to attend the meeting without extra pay.

Your job isn't the problem, it is the boss. My housekeeping years were bliss, but my female boss respected me and I her, totally.

Find another position where you aren't ignored/treated like shit.

Actually I disagree there.

There was once a temp at work who was asked to do some fairly drudgy typing. She kicked off and was complaining, "Back in Australia, I was a marketing assistant, and now you're asking me to type labels yada yada." I replied that I had called an agency and asked for someone to type labels. That's all I wanted.

In a social situation of course it's rude to ask and judge, but if you are this man's housekeeper then he is obviously more interested in your skills with a loo brush than your world travel and interests.

The Innkeeper's wife thing, OP, is a thread where a DMum was outraged at the sexism in her daughter playing 'the innkeeper's wife' in the nativity play, rather than having her own name (ignoring that the innkeeper doesn't have a name himself).....and you were complaining at the sexism that you were introduced as someone else's wife. Though your update did give an explanation that seem to account for it, in that they both know the someone else.
I could see the link between the two threads.

£15ph is average for Housekeeping, I was on that in 2008!

@IrmaFayLear If he only wanted me for my housekeeping skills (which he usually does), he wouldn't have invited me to the meeting. I didn't ask him if I could attend, he asked me.

I am employed as a housekeeper and very happy with that, I'm not kicking off when changing beds, saying 'I used to be a company director and I shouldn't be changing beds", I just do it, quite happily.

If he chose to invite me to the meeting, I think the least he should do is be respectful to me during it. Fair enough afterwards I'll clean away the cups and plump the cushions!

why the link? Nothing to do with me but thanks.

Because you asked.
"Sorry I don't understand The Inn Keeper's Wife? What's that about?"

It sort of is to do with you as it is also discussing being referred to as X's wife rather than your actual name.

@HowlsMovingBungalow OK, thanks, well I thought it was an OK wage for housekeeping but clearly not. Perhaps it varies on area? There aren't many cleaners on £15 per hour around here.

I think it does depend on the area that you live in. I was in rural SW UK, it is probably a low wage in London etc and depends on what is expected of you in the home.

It's unfair that it happened but at least you know what's likely to happen now if you have other meetings. These kind of men- and it is men - are used to fighting for status and airtime in a conversation. They don't yield. It's tedious, and in fact an inefficient way of doing business. In this case they lost your expertise from the conversation by willy-waggling. But it is what it is.

To navigate the system, as soon as he said "This is Mr Thingy's wife" you should have taken that as an invitation to take airtime, briefly outline your credentials and reason for being at the meeting. It feels wanky and cringe (because it is) but you needed to establish your status there.

I understand that you'd expect your boss to politely do that on your behalf but as soon as he didn't, you should have done.

To the point about remuneration - yes! Your intro could make it clear you've got these skills but you're choosing to help him out- informally today, (but potentially would need paying in future).

"I'm X, my role at this meeting is to offer any additional thoughts or provocations on Y - the reason I've been asked to come along today is that in a previous life I did blah blah. So I'm really happy to offer any assistance-on this occasion, in an informal capacity."

If you don't feel able/qualified to do the above - there's your imposter syndrome!

I be worked with people like this before, it’s all about who you know/contacts and explaining who’s wife you are would be pretty normal as they like to be able to “place” you if you see what I mean?
I did feel a bit on the back foot when they were talking about who did what at the Hunt ball and how drunk lady x got after the last shoot but as soon as it for down to business I made it clear that I knew my stuff and they were happy to listen. They do prefer to work with people they know or who have been recommended by someone they know so the chit chat is often part of that.
Thing with the upper classes, like the rest of us some are charming and some are arseholes but they Can only make you feel you shouldn’t be there if you let them, especially in a business scenario. They like to talk about who knows who and balls and shoots and hunts and the rest of it but when it comes down to business everyone is equal.

Did you contribute anything to do with your expertise (marketing)?

Did your employer not know how meeting would go, but thought the client might want to talk marketing, so your employer was trying to be prepared but prepared for the wrong meeting (and client led the meeting topics)?

Seems like real problem is why were you at the meeting at all. What work things were they talking about (or did your employer expect you to interrupt to give reviews of which hotels to stay at?) Or was this a digression & you were waiting patiently for them to finish their social pleasantries (posh hotels bore me so I probably wouldn't get the appeal of talking about them at all). But then you did contribute marketing expertise or did they never get to that topic?

Hands up... I am guilty of not reading OP properly.

Did your employer ask you what you thought afterwards?
It seems to me like he wanted you there precisely as an observer.
"Is this guy talking BS"? was your role to advise on.

To be fair it is weird the cleaner was in on the meeting... this all sounds very strange/not well explained. If you have the relevant experience why are you cleaning the office?

I'm just back from 50 minute run, was thinking about OP's story.
I'm jaundiced coz an expensive business consultant caused pointless disruption at DH's company.

OP: Did Mr. Marketing Consultant know about your work background?

This was an early negotiation point, before your boss decides to trust his gut instinct and pay Mr MC thousands that may be wasted. Your gut feelings would be useful to your boss. Especially if Mr MC didn't direct his powers of persuasion at OP at all. If Mr. MC doesn't understand OP's expertise & critical insight, then playing her experience down gave OP's boss a negotiating advantage.

Thanks for your comments, really interesting, particularly your thoughts @YeOldeTrout. I love running think time, I get all my best ideas then!

My opinion of the MC was not very high at the end of the meeting, and not just because of all the pointless point scoring between them. I didn't think he'd examined the brief properly, only suggested one supplier, and hadn't completed action points from an earlier email. He has been given a little information about my background, but dismissed me early in the conversation. However, I don't think my attendance was to offer my opinion as the MC has already negotiated his fee in previous meetings (that I wasn't part of). The meeting didn't really drill down into what I would call the nitty gritty as there was way too much posturing and social chit chat, a two hour meeting, that had about 20 minutes of useful business.

I think the main problem to my attendance at the meeting was my inability to join in with the upper class nonsense, but I was invited for my business insight, not who I know. I just need to see beyond this and take it for what it was, two hours of not having to lug a hoover around, just enjoying coffee and people watching!

Honestly- I think it would have been better for you not to have been in the meeting

I think you are being a bit oversensitive OP.

They were a bit rude too -- were you given an opportunity to contribute something useful to the meeting?

I see this sort of behaviour a lot in business and would never take it personally.