Criminal age of responsibility

[Shoxfordian]

What age do you think the criminal age of responsibility should be? In Scotland there's a campaign to make the age 12, and the UN opinion is that it should be 14. In portugal, it's 16.

I think it should possibly be 12 or 13 but also there should be some discretion based on the specific child's level of understanding.

Sorry not an aibu just an opinion question

It really depends IMO on the nature of the crime, the mens rea required, and whether the child has the capacity to form the mens rea.

A 11 year old may have the mental capacity to form the mens rea to commit theft for example but perhaps not for more serious offences.

Easy to say aLil when it's not your child who has been raped or murdered. There is a pace for punishment, it's not a very trendy or woke word but it exists for a reason.

That's why we have a criminal justice system and the victim's families don't set prison sentences.

Also '10 is old enough to understand right from wrong'...is it? If all the adults in your life consistently model 'wrong' behaviour? If this causes them to fall in with gangs who also model this behaviour? How and where are hey supposed to gain this understanding?

If this is the case, why would they suddenly have this understanding at 16 or 18?

"We always think of a child who has committed an offence as someone else's child. Our children would never do that."

I think this is a good point. I've seen plenty of posts on MN where an OP admitted to harshly punishing a ten or eleven year old for stealing or being violent towards another child, and received a load of abuse for it ("Your poor little boy/ girl. Ten or eleven is just a BABY! You sound vile"). Because everyone is picturing a nice Mumsnetter's child from a nice family like their own. My child is a lovable scamp. Your child made a mistake but they're just a baby really. His/ her child is feral scum who needs to be locked up and have the key thrown away.

Honestly, I don't know what the right age is. I'm no expert. But I do think it's weird the way we infantilise some kids ("eleven is still so little!") and demonise others.

Tell the parents of Jamie Bulger & the victims families of Mary Bell that 10 is too young for criminal responsibility. Robert Thompson & Jon Venables spent part of their sentence in a secure unit not far from where I live & parents were terrified to let their children out of their sight when it was revealed that Thompson & Venables had been seen on trips to the nearby village shops. From what is in the news Robert Thompson has not changed or shown any remorse for what he did. Jon Venables may have been rehabilitated, both have been given new identities & probably cost the state many thousands of pounds since leaving custody, as has Mary Bell who went on to have a child of her own.

Also '10 is old enough to understand right from wrong'...is it? If all the adults in your life consistently model 'wrong' behaviour? If this causes them to fall in with gangs who also model this behaviour? How and where are hey supposed to gain this understanding?

Primary schools usually have Golden Rules where physically hurting someone or destroying stuff on purpose isn't ok.

I suspect that kids in households with criminal parents quickly learn what to hide/lie about to people in authority like the police and school. From that they'll know selling drugs aren't ok or mum can't tell the hospital that her injury is from dad kicking her because dad will be in trouble etc

I think that kids being groomed into criminal behaviour is a very serious worry though. The dispatches programme on County Lines reckon that 50,000 kids have been involved in drug running Fuck knows how many kids are victims of families grooming them into criminal behaviour too

Nat6999

I think that's the other way round, Venables has been in court at least twice since being released but Thompson is living a quiet life.

For what it's worth I totally agree they should have been tried as children, in a youth court following the rules for youth prosecution.
Being tried as adults was for the public's benefit and totally inappropriate for two 10 year olds