AIBU to think there’s nothing my sister can do about this emotional and physical abuse by my niece?

[Hallomother]

I’m posting this here for traffic as we are absolutely desperate and don’t really know what else to do. I know AIBU can be brutal but I’m hoping for any helpful suggestions or advice.

My niece who is 21 has been emotionally abusing my sister for years it's escalated and escalated to the stage where my sister no longer feels safe in the house. The police have been called on numerous occasions but nothing has come of it. There have also been physical elements where my sister has been pushed and shoved and had several items such as shoes and water bottles thrown at her. She also assaulted another younger relative who was trying to intervene once.

My sister has contacted all sorts of organisations but no one can offer any practical advice for getting my niece out of the house. My sister has tried to find out if emergency accommodation is available so that if she changed the locks, my niece wouldn't be on the streets but has been told there isn't anything. Despite all the abhorrent behaviour towards her she obviously is still her mother and could not live with the crushing guilt of the thought of her daughter living on the streets.

Has anyone been in this situation before or can anyone offer any practical advice for getting her to move out? I am so worried about my sister, she is literally at breaking point.

There are no friends who would allow her to sofa surf so that isn't an option. Please don't advise sitting her down and talking to her every attempt leads to abuse, insults and threats. She isn’t reasonable in any way, knows full well the impact her behaviour is having and seems to delight in it so any kind of reasoning is completely pointless.

I know some of you will say that this is a reflection on my sister’s parenting but I can genuinely genuinely say it isn’t. She’s tried everything, she’s been loving, supportive and kind, tried to contact every organisation imaginable for support/counselling etc (niece refuses to go) and has done everything she can to try to get help both for her and my niece. It just feels like she has been completely abandoned to deal with it alone.

Any advice or suggestions would be so gratefully received.

I’m happy to give the county out by PM if anyone knows of any regional organisations but I don’t want to put it in the main thread Incase somehow it gets back to her.

Thank you.

Thanks Hallo. I'm on the mobile site so can't get it now. I'll check later

Is it just this that makes you think niece has MH issues? What other symptoms has she displayed? How did she do at school? What was like prior to the five years ago you say this kicked off? What triggered this breakdown in their relationship?

If there is any element of learning disability then the LD team may help.

Have other relatives witnessed this behaviour?

What does niece say to explain it?

The fact she threatens to burn the flat down etc if she is thrown out is worrying and clearly abusive. If a partner was doing this then the police would take it more seriously (I hope).

I can understand your sister being fearful of throwing her out but she has to assert herself here if her home isn’t safe anymore.

How about contacting women’s aid? This is DV even if it isn’t partner violence.

I think a restraining order is needed. Throw her out change locks and get a RA

If you are worried about her sleeping rough then you can transfer her enough money for a week in a cheap hotel whilst she sorts some temp accommodation out.

Get as many family members onside as you can as your sister needs as much support as she can get

What a horrible situation.

It sounds like a clear cut case of domestic abuse. Do the police know?

I think the only option is to call the police when she’s assaults her and don’t allow her access to the house .

Kick her out your sister is entitled to be safe in her own home and not be treated this way by NO ONE, if she won’t leave phone police to escort her out sister just tells them She is a guest and I don’t want her here anymore and she won’t leave, as long as she isn’t contributing to the rent or paying lodge the police will remove her. Your sister needs to stop letting her get away with this behaviour and treating her this way she’s a adult, if it was anybody else besides her adult child she would of kicked them out, she’s needs to be strong and kick her out and not allow her to move back home ever again if this is how she treats her
If she really won’t kick her out then there isn’t any help out there besides the police and it will be endless circle of treatment for your sister and all she’s doing is enabling it tough love is what’s needed
Only advice I can think if she won’t kick her out is if she is she needs to stops giving her any money ever, start charging her rent and make sure she pays it if she doesn't she gets kicked out for that month, house duties for her to do, when she does assault your sister, your sister needs to press charges she is never going to start acting like a adult if she can just kick off and then doesn't have to and gets away behaving this way she’s learnt this behaviour and won’t change someone else has to make her and best thing for your niece in the long run is for your sister to actually kick her out does she treat random people the same way she treats your sister?
Some places that may be of help to your niece if your sister ever does decide to tell her to get out as you need to be homeless before they can help you or be able to refer you to someone who can help are-
Council- niece needs to ask them to refer her to a shelter as she is homeless and see if she can go council waiting list in your area for a council property
There are some self referral shelters too but most need to be referred to by council
Salvation Army
Hostel
Local churches
Night Stops all across the uk
Rainbow of hope- Cardiff area
St Basils- Birmingham area

Thank you everyone.
Yes it is total abuse and I do completely understand the frustration about my sister not wanting to throw her out.

Some good posts here though and some serious food for thought.

I don’t live close to my sister which makes it difficult. I’m not sure how much the police know about it being domestic abuse as I’ve not been there every time they hAve been called which is why I’m definitely going to look at contacting the domestic abuse team. You’re right, if it was a spouse, it would be taken much more seriously. The thing is, like with a lot of abusive relationships, it’s very very hard to make that final step and cut ties and then in this case there’s the added guilt of this being her child and she feels like if she does this she’s exactly what my niece tells people she is - a terrible mother. It’s all such a mess.

She doesn’t behave like this in front of other people, in fact she plays the poor me card - half her friends think my sister is some kind of vile mother who mistreats her! She’s very very manipulative and knows exactly what she’s doing as the cycle of abuse shows.
However for relatives she has shown this side - but only a younger relative and a much older relative. We don’t have much extended family so that doesn’t help as there’s no one else we can really turn to for support - her dad isn’t in the picture.

Sorry if I’ve missed some posters questions I’m going to go back and read through posts properly now

Thank you for taking time to answer

This is a type of domestic abuse. If you google [adult] child to parent violence there is a lot of information available.

The most important thing is that this is not your sister's fault,

What are the concerns about the tenancy?

Yes, your neice is unwell and it's been left untreated.
My niece is the same but fortunately it was caught in time after 4 years locked in a child psychiatric unit. My niece turned out to be autistic and the only way she could express herself was the way your niece is behaving.
They say girls hide it better than boys so everybody would have put it down to your niece being bad behaved, violent.

My niece was locked behind double doors in hospital due to her extreme violence she was a child, she's on loads of medication and doing well but won't ever live a normal life where she will live herself. You need your niece assessed the worst thing you can do is throw her out because that will expose her to all sorts. Start fighting for your niece to get help

Definitely talk with Domestic Abuse team . Had your niece ever had a diagnosis of behavioural issues at school.
How did she present at school?
Maybe your sister could talk to her GP about all of this. It may be that GP already knows about an underlying disorder that has recently manifested itself and the GP could signpost her and her daughter to the relevant support.
Maybe a chat with Social Services who could also signpost your sister.
She should not have to live like this.

Thank you so much for all the posts there’s some really useful information here and I’m just sorting through and making notes of suggestions and organisations to contact.

If there is no issue in childhood there has to be some explanation for this behaviour. Whether it's addiction, mental or a learning disability. I understand it must be horrendous but your sister is right to not turn her back on her.

Why hasn't this been addresses before? Has she ever been accessed for any of the above, perhaps before she was 16? Did school raise any concerns?

Or did this behaviour only begin in adulthood?

I've learnt that SS or organisations won't help in these situations unless you make them. Your sister needs to change the locks. The only way your niece will get emergency accommodation is if she ha no where else to go. Whilst they know your sister will take her in, they won't help.

Next time she does it call police, the police will have reports which can be used to pass onto a mental health team as well as social Work. Everything helps.

You have described my brother before he was diagnosed with a MH condition after being arrested for serious assault on a family member. Please please help your sister to understand she must tell everyone the full extent of what is happening...her GP who can help her, the police, the mh crisis team. She is not helping anyone least of all her daughter by downplaying what is happening.
Please PM me if you think I can help.

Your sister is enabling her daughter.
It's really hard to kick your own child out but I have been there some that.
Son years ago because of drugs. Broke my heart.
Theres no other way except a good old fashioned ass whooping.