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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To be absolutely enraged with the system

36 replies

Birthdaycakemondays · 03/11/2019 21:44

After watching ‘killed by my debt.’ A young lad in London who killed himself because of bailiffs & a 1k debt cause by TWO parking fines.

AIBU to be fucking outraged with it all?

How does 2 parking fines equate to 1k worth of debt, in what world is that ok? Obviously it’s due to non payment, but still. Should people under a certain age have a cap on the amount the debt can rise to? I really don’t think a lot of 18-21 year olds understand the implications of ignoring the letters.

He was a self employed courier on a 0 hour contract earning next to nothing & they set up a payment plan of over £100 a week. That was basically what he earned.

When did we allow ourselves to have the piss taken out of us so badly? I understand where there is crime there is punishment but this just seems needlessly excessive. I’m sure having to pay £100 or £200 late fine fees is sufficient to ensuring you don’t not pay on time again.

I just feel so bad for the lad & his family, I don’t think the greedy fat cats will miss the £500 he never managed to pay, but his family will sure miss him. Angry

OP posts:
Gottagetout · 04/11/2019 02:50

I work somewhere with a parking eye type thing. Parking is free if you are a customer, you have to enter the building and give your reg number. It was introduced because our customers couldn't park due to us being in a prime location and the only free parking around, every man and his dog parked here - it's a small carpark and private land. We did try all sorts but nothing worked, this is. So from that pov I can see why companies get these types of systems in, ours is an external company and we get nothing from the 'fines' except grief
However, the way these things are aggressively chased, parking fines, council tax etc is diabolical. I've been on the recieving end and it doesn't surprise, though saddens me greatly, to hear about this young man. I'm not sure I could watch it to be honest because It'd hit too close to home. I was a single parent in council tax debt, and I attempted suicide, and very nearly succeeded, due to the tactics of the council and the bailiffs.
They hounded me constantly, I had nothing of value - which they said, though it was true enough, when they lied their way in, and so they told me they'd be back the next day to arrest me and they'd take my DD into care, and if I didn't let them in, they'd break in anyway as they had a 'court order' (which actually was a liability order, which lets them chase the debt, doesn't allow breaking in, but I didn't know that then) they said the only way to avoid this happening was to pay them £250 when they arrived to arrest me, I couldn't raise it so I spoke to the council, or tried to. They confirmed what they bailiffs said, and technically all those things could have happened, but not by the bailiffs, and not without going back to court, and me being present. But I had no reason to disbelieve because who would think councils and 'official court appointed bailiffs' would behave like that?
I asked my friend to have DD overnight and lied that I'd been called in to work last minute. Then I took an overdose. Because it was the only way out I could see. Thank goodness she forgot to take something and had keys to my house because I wouldn't be here now if she hadn't. I planned for the lovely bailiffs to find me, I'd even left them a note. After months of hounding it just destroyed me, completely and utterly. I only had one thing left to give.
The police and ss were involved and a really kind police officer spoke to me about it all, and opened my eyes, she also managed to get the bailiffs involved a warning from their issuing court for lying about their powers. She put me onto a website and forum where I educated myself about debt and bailiffs - they're brilliant and I turned my life around thanks to the people on there, if anyone reading this needs help please PM me and I'll point you in the right direction.
You are treated as a criminal for owing a few hundred pounds, and hundreds and hundreds are added at a whim, people are hounded, lied to, threatened and it's appalling. Bailiffs get away with all sorts of crap because they're hardly regulated, and the majority of people don't think they behave in such a manner to be honest. They abuse their powers, well a lot do and it's costing people a lot more than money.
It's shameful the way people who can't afford to live are treated, convicted criminals in prison have more dignity and are treated better. But all you'll hear from those fortunate enough to not deal with them is 'pay your debts then'.

transformandriseup · 04/11/2019 03:47

It's not quite the same thing as it didn't get that far but a few months ago I was contacted but an old car insurer to say my insurance was never properly cancelled and i owed them a years worth of insurance. I told them there was no way I could have paid it as I was on maternity leave and it was almost a months worth of SMP. I offered to pay in instalments but they refused and referred it to a debt collection agency who wanted even more money, even their minimum monthly payment was over £200. The agency then started texting me several times a day, even in the middle of the night. It was terrifying and it all happened over a few weeks but in the end I did my homework and the case was closed due to a technicality but it was terrifying enough and I dread to think how far it would have would have got and how it would have affected a more vulnerable person. I've never owed money to anyone before and kept telling them I've got a young baby at home but they didn't care at all.

malificent7 · 04/11/2019 06:30

Whilst on my last hospital placement as an NHS student, the car park ticket machine was broken. I still got fined £60 for not having a ticket and was told tough luck when i contested it!

TheQueef · 04/11/2019 06:34

I've seen it.
I've seen real life examples (sadly)
It's only poor people that can be so disproportionately affected so apparently it's ok.

Whitleyboy · 04/11/2019 07:13

"Cant Pay We'll Take it Away is a grim watch and people who have similar issues (parking fines, not paying council tax because they lost their job etc) are treated worse than criminals. Like seriously why is it acceptable for big burly blokes to force their way into the homes of vulnerable people often with kids there and threaten to take their stuff (and they usually lie about their rights too) because of a fucking parking ticket?"
Maybe some bailiffs do force their way in and lie to people but that is not the case on the TV programme you refer to. They are High Court Enforcement Officers who are enforcing an order made by a High Court Judge made many months down the line which people, like landlords, have spent a fortune obtaining because they are out of pocket from the debt.

The people on that programme are very compassionate and show respect for the people they are collecting debts from and they are always very good when children or people with mental health issues are concerned. They only do an inventory of assets that can be taken away if people do not cooperate with them. When they do write an inventory, they don't take basic household items such as your sofa and bed, oven, dining table etc. They aren't allowed to.They don't take a TV if you only have one. They don't take a microwave if you don't have another source for cooking. If they have to take items they take the minimum possible to clear the debt.

On that programme they have also spoken to the council to help evicted people to get council accommodation. They are always kind to kids, one of the officers often gives his card to people and offered help and occasionally have given lifts to the council. If people do not have jobs and really have no way of obtaining money to pay their debts then they have walked away and haven't even setup a payment plan.

Fine, slag off particular 'bailiffs' but don't tar them all with the same brush. Those on 'Can't pay, we'll take it away' are consumate professionals who often show great kindness to the debtors.

TheQueef · 04/11/2019 07:24

Can't pay is a symptom, I actually really like some of the balif (one fella has such a Dad charisma it must be a comfort, I know if I had to have a bailiff I want him) and I'm sure they adhere to best policy.
Using it as entertainment is wrong.
Using the gold standard like this just hides some really scummy practices.

Whitleyboy · 04/11/2019 07:50

I didn't see the programme 'Killing my debt' but it is tragic that someone has taken their own life over this.

It is very easy for a couple of hundred pounds to spiral to £1,000 when court costs are added.

"Should people under a certain age have a cap on the amount the debt can rise to? I really don’t think a lot of 18-21 year olds understand the implications of ignoring the letters."
No, we shouldn't cap what a debt can rise to just because someone is young. The system covers many types of debt, not just parking fines, and if young people have the amount it can rise to capped, then some people and companies would be out of pocket as they would be deterred from persuing such people through the courts. Why should they lose out?

We need to teach all children in schools about money management. Parents should also teach and re-enforce this with their children. However, one of the problems is that so many people live beyond their means in a culture of wanting everything now. I think we have to change this culture.

Credit is too easy to obtain. Credit cards are offered willy nilly and IME, in earlier years, as soon as you approach the credit limit, you are offered an increased limit. That shouldn't happen.

The idea that you are more credit worthy if you have loads of credit and are paying off minimum amounts each month, than someone who pays their way through life with no debt is ridiculous.The people with all the debt have less money and should be considered less credit worthy as their money is required to service that debt.

"He was a self employed courier on a 0 hour contract earning next to nothing & they set up a payment plan of over £100 a week. That was basically what he earned."
That is appalling and should never happen.

Sallycinammonbangsthedruminthe · 04/11/2019 08:05

I object to the making of these programmes like Can;t pay won;t pay...making programmes about people struggling is not entertainment.I agree there should be more education on debt matters .

Awwlookatmybabyspider · 04/11/2019 10:01

@Whitleyboy. Is that you, Paul Bohill.

CuriousaboutSamphire · 04/11/2019 10:08

Don't blame those bailiffs... High Court Enforcement Officers, they are essential if you are on the other side of the cin, the one owed large amounts of money for no fault of your own.

Blame the parking companies for using a system that was never intended to be used for such trivialities as parking fines.

I object to the making of these programmes like Can;t pay won;t pay...making programmes about people struggling is not entertainment.I agree there should be more education on debt matters Have you actually watched them? Most of what they do is educational.

From a debtors perspective they explain ad nausuem how to avoid HCEOs, how to deal with them if they arrive, how to deal with the inevitability of settling a debt, payment plans, defaulting etc etc.

Gottagetout · 04/11/2019 10:14

We need to teach all children in schools about money management. Parents should also teach and re-enforce this with their children. However, one of the problems is that so many people live beyond their means in a culture of wanting everything now. I think we have to change this culture.
I agree with more education around money and finances. My parents were guilty of 'money doesn't concern children' and didn't get anything in schools. However no amount of teaching will solve the problem of more going out than coming in. I had a few debts, and by far the most aggressive, least helpful were the council. They set an amount for a payment plan that was beyond my means, completely, and refused anything less when I tried to make a smaller payment over the phone. Unbeknownst to me, the fact I was paying what little I could, when I could via the automated payment line, stood me in good stead. But they were £x by X date or bailiffs! Ad infitum. They still sent it to the bailiffs and the bailiffs wanted more per month, and kept adding fees. Even when they saw my belongings and said themselves that the price it would fetch wouldn't even cover the van to collect it, they still continued. I had a water debt and telephone debt. Both of those worked with me and I paid a very small amount until I got back on my feet and then more as time went on and cleared it. Among other people my mother was hugely scathing about the bailiffs and refused to believe me when I said I hadn't buried my head in the sand and had tried and was paying. Then it happened to her, over a debt she didn't even owe the council. They sent the bailiffs after her because she was contesting it, she sharp changed her tune. Of course I can only speak of my experience with confidence, but the website I spoke of has many, many similar stories. I got into debt just living, many people do.

Credit is too easy to obtain. Credit cards are offered willy nilly and IME, in earlier years, as soon as you approach the credit limit, you are offered an increased limit. That shouldn't happen.

Totally agree with that, although I had one, again they were very good when I fell behind, but I had a small limit and and I got it paid off fairly quickly. Never had another.

The idea that you are more credit worthy if you have loads of credit and are paying off minimum amounts each month, than someone who pays their way through life with no debt is ridiculous.The people with all the debt have less money and should be considered less credit worthy as their money is required to service that debt.

Yes! Absolutely should be that way. But people with less money are more desperate..... Look at the rates for payday loans and the like, more likely to be used by someone already in debt and paying a massive amount of interest.

I never denied my debts, I knew I owed and planned to pay, but I was between a rock and a hard place. Income cut in half by a sudden illness - 6 months sick lead to spiralling debts, mental health issues and a suicide attempt. I believe the bailiffs company that dealt with me is no longer dealing with the CT debt from my council because they had so many complaints. My debt was returned to the council after other agencies got involved and they agreed to a feasible payment plan, it got paid off. If they'd just realised that you can't get blood out of a stone from the start it'd have been paid sooner and I needn't have gone through all that and had an additional 3 months sick to the original time.

I also think the likes of 'Can't pay, we'll take it away' are awful. Entertainment made of what's likely to be the worst day in someone's life is horrible.

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