AIBU to think that the UK housing crisis is not caused by supply and demand?

[Goodnightseamer]

It's often trotted out as a reason but there are 29 million houses in the UK. There are slightly fewer than 28 million households. That's over a million houses more than there are households. So there are plenty of houses. Houses are unaffordable due to speculative investment, not under supply. AIBU?

I think the line is 'lack of affordable housing'

There is a mismatch between where the houses are and where the households want to live though, in many cases. Lots of cities / areas do have a supply issue.

There are houses. But bot everyone can move to the other side of the country.

Also what state arw the million or so empty houses in?

Derelict houses; holiday houses; houses in areas with no employment opportunities whatsoever; houses in the other side of the country to where people grew up, established their life, have their job and support network and therefore want to live...

To me that doesn't exactly sound like much slack, given that the extra million will include

• holiday homes (many of which will be in areas which aren't easy to actually live in)
• places being renovated
• recently inherited/going through probate
• rental properties which are on the market/awaiting tenants
• delapidated/uninhabitable
• homes in places where there is no longer demand like former mining towns and villages

Plus there will of course be hoarded investment property.

There is a mismatch between where the houses are and where the households want to live though

Like London and the South East you mean? Where the number of households has risen by 10% this century while the number of houses has risen by 12% during the same time.

-Lots of houses are simply unaffordable to most people.
-No houses to rent rather than buy.
-Watch Homes Under the Hammer to see how many houses in the uk are not in a habitable state.
-I’m willing to bet there are more that 1 million second home, holiday homes and air b and bs.
-all houses are not created equal. What if people want a three bed house and there are only two beds available?

Holiday homes, places where someone has died and nobody to inherit, homes the owner is trying to sell but can’t because nobody wants to buy at the cost being asked. I know someone with a house up north that has been on he market for 3 years.
Then there’s the homes the councils have boarded up to demolish to make room for more housing.
The government has the option of buying/CPOing an empty house after 2 years but never ever do.
A million empty homes and millions of people looking for affordable housing. If the government had an overhaul of the system allowing people to have several holiday homes and overseas buyers coming and buying places only to leave them empty, we would reduce the problem massively.

Where are you getting your figures from? ONS says 25 million homes; 27 million households.

To be clear: London property prices have risen by slightly under 500% during a time when more homes were built than households were added. Is this really about supply and demand?

The only part of the country that has seen a slight under supply in the last 20 years is the Midlands, by around 1%. All other areas have built more homes than households been added during that time. If it's really about supply and demand, why haven't prices in the Midlands increased by 500%?

I got the number of homes figure from the government climate change report as this is the most recent tally of number of homes in the UK, done a couple of months ago. I did look around to find something up to date.

Yabu. Your argument can be criticised on the basis of its implied understanding of market dynamics; a failure to take into consideration some of the basic distinguishing features of housing markets and shortcomings in your syllogistic reasoning.

Yeah I'm sure it can. I'm just adding up. Care to elaborate?

I think there’s a lack of social housing where it was sold off and not replaced.

But I do hear you, a lot of the people renting houses should have been able to buy the ones they are renting. But the values are so skewed, the 2008 crash should have dropped the houses back to 5 x average salary rates. But bailing it out means the house price Is still at levels set by self cert mortgages where you said you aren’t what you needed to, to buy that house. Without the ability for average people to attain that mortgage.

Also, I may be misunderstanding but I think we're making the same point which is that this really is not a question of supply and demand.

Yes, after breakfast though.

Is part of the problem not expectation?

When I got on the property ladder in the 90s, first time buyers bought flats in gritty areas or houses that needed a LOT of work. You spent a couple of years cooking on a rickety oven or sleeping on a mattress on the floor because you couldn’t afford furniture.

They were cheap because of one or both of the above.

Now it seems even first time buyers want a house move in ready - or at worst only a bit of redecoration - semi detached with a garage and garden - and sitting on the floor with tv on an orange box is gone.

Your logic is skewed though. 28 million households are counted on the basis of people living in a house, right?

So that doesn’t count all the people who want to be a household but can’t because there are no affordable houses where they live and work?

People in shared housing? Adults living with parents?

Also you can’t see the people living in crowded or unsuitable housing. They might be a household but could be a family of four in a one bed flat.

I dont think those million houses are "spare" - many people have second homes and holiday homes.

@SaveKevin yeah tenure type has definitely changed. Many more households in private rentals, far fewer owner occupiers, a vanishingly small number in social housing. But they're still all housed. Inadequately and insecurely in the case of many private sector tenants, but housed nonetheless.

There is no crisis. There is a shortage of homes cheap enough for poorly paid folk in some areas. That isn’t a crisis.

Second homes and holiday lets I would count as speculative investment and agree it's part of the problem. The issue isn't number of homes but type of ownership.

miaowing your argument feels a bit like the avocado toast one for young people. Where I am there are no affordable houses, shitty or not. Do-er uppers are snapped up really quickly as they are about all anyone on a ‘normal’ household income can afford.

I’m confused. What do you think the house in housing crisis is then? Or you don’t think there is one?

Ok. What exactly is the point you are trying to make and why are you making it?

You seem to be wanting to start an argument.