That nursery are leaving baby awake too long

[littlejalapeno]

DS is 10 months old and we try to make sure he naps every 3-4 hours when he’s at home. This means a morning nap at -around 9.30. He goes to nursery three mornings a week However at nursery he rarely goes to sleep before 11.30. I know it is a more stimulating environment, but if he has been up since 5.30 or 6.30 it means he will have been awake 5-6 hours, which seems very long for a 10 month old to me.

When we joined we filled out a sleep schedule and info on how to help him get there and I have asked the staff and his key worker to help him sleep by 930. But it doesn’t happen and they tell me he’s too excited to sleep and just doesn’t want to. To me that’s a sign of an overtired baby. I usually end up waking him at 1pm when I collect him and he’s like a zombie and yawning and fussy about his next nap, which he’s not ready for until 4/5pm (instead of 1.30-2pm) which also pushes bed time back by two hours and then he spends the night waking constantly.

AIBU in thinking nursery should be following the sleep schedule they requested and helping him sleep on time?

Every morning when we arrive and have a chat about him and I do ask for him to be put to sleep at 9.30/10, but it just doesn’t seem to happen. When I collected him yesterday they gave him to me at the door ready to go and said he had been playing downstairs with the big kids, but he was so sleepy I checked his book and it said he had just woke 10 minutes before I collected him, so I don’t know how he could’ve been up and playing and coat and shoes on in that time. I feel like I should escalate it to management... How can I do it in a polite way where we find a solution, as I understand he’s not the only baby that needs attention? It’s just making our lives harder and I’m worried that he is very over tired and it could have a negative impact on his development. Is 6 hours too long for a 10 month old to be awake? He just seems so grumpy 😔 I’m so tired too from being up constantly at night, so sorry if this is a little garbled! Any advice on how I can handle this tactfully would be so welcome!

You are not unreasonable. In my experience of working in nurseries the baby room followed individual nap schedules and the toddler room followed a group nap schedule. Having said that, there is no way my son at 10 months old would nap if he could hear other babies playing.

Does he fall asleep by himself with you or do you feed/cuddle him to sleep?

If you do ‘help’ him it might be worth trying to get him to settle at home without needing that so that he is more self reliant at falling asleep at nursery. Different people won’t do things the same and it’ll help him if he can just snuggle with a comforter and fall asleep alone.

I think you're being a bit controlling about the naps tbh. Ds went to nursery from 7 months and I never proposed a sleep schedule, I asked them to just go with how he's feeling, and we never had a problem with sleeping. He usually only had one long nap at nursery and slept from 8-7 consistently.

In most nurseries, they don't have a separate room for naps so they're usually trying to nap in a stimulating environment. I think trying to stick to an old routine is really unrealistic.

Firstly babies don't conform to books, there's no supposed to nap x hours. Secondly they have a room full kids, they can't get the others to stay quiet because of one outlying child, perhaps a childminder could accommodate this. Why not put him to bed later and get up later? 5.30 is a ridiculously early start if he's not going to nursery until 8 o'clock

I’ve done some reading just now and he shouldn’t drop down to one nap until 12 months

I did loads of reading before I had my first baby. Once she was born I soon abandoned that because she made it clear to me that babies have never read books, adhere to no guidelines and don't come with an instruction manual. They will all drop daytime naps at different ages. Mine were largely on one good nap a day at around 10 months, unless on a longer car journey when they would nod off in their seats again.

It is meant as kindly as possible, but nursery staff will mostly have several children to settle at once. That means it isn't one to one attention. Any number of those children could be fighting sleep at that point. They just can't provide the individual attention to get him off to sleep that you can at home, so it could take a lot longer and happen later.

You need to accept that the routine on nursery days will have to be more flexible, with moveable goalposts.

@SoyDora yep same for my 11 month old.
Normally he will nap at 9am if we go on school run and then home, but otherwise he's way too interested in other stuff and doesn't then nap till he crashes abour 11!

They can't force him to sleep, although some of what your saying doesn't sound right. Like saying he was downstairs playing but his notes said he had only just woken. So by all means speak to management, but I think you do need to appreciate they can't force him to nap when he isn't ready to.

Have a firm word with key worker or room leader.

Really?
Is that really the best way to maintain a relationship with the nursery staff?
By treating them like a naughty child?

Thanks everyone,

Thanks everyone, it does seem every child is different, so I appreciate hearing that. I guess everyone knows their own child best. Also thanks to the nursery workers who have given advice about the schedule and what actually happens at nursery, especially @AnchorDownDeepBreath - when I’ve asked how they get him to sleep they have been vague so perhaps that’s a really good starting point to find a solution.

So @donkir how do you prioritise? That makes sense though

I get that the environment is more stimulating etc, but if he was asleep at even 10 it would be fine and a flexible solution. It’s just going 530-1130 that I want to avoid as it has a negative impact on the rest of our day, the next day and his mood.

Also To the person who said we shouldn’t start our day at 5.30, @stucknoueplease can you tell this to my son? I say it to him every day and am trying everything we can think of, but no change so far!

I have, in the past, just left him to it to fall asleep as he needed but it soon became clear that he needs help to fall asleep when he shows signs of tiredness or he’s up and agitated and grumpy and then harder to settle. So I was relieved when the nursery said that they do follow each baby’s sleep needs.

Perhaps I should look into a childminder but I like that he is with a lot of other children in nursery and I do actually like the staff and environment.

@Tumbleweed101 getting him to sleep more independently is great advice and thanks! Currently doing cuddle to settle, then put down pat and shush, it’s a bit hit and miss but trying to be consistent. Hopefully that will make it easier for the nursery workers too.

@insancerre good point about the half day sessions. I thought it would be better as he wouldn’t be away from me too long but I do hate interrupting his sleep when I collect him.

@Booboostwo I do think good sleep habits are learned behaviour and consistency plays a big part in this. Though insomnia is a powerful, horrible thing.

Right thanks everyone, think I will, with maximum flexibility in my heart, chicken out and get his dad to talk to them! Hah just kidding, I’ll have a pleasant chat with his key worker about how they’re setting him and if there’s anything we can do at home to support him getting better morning rest, and then hope for the best.

Hope you all have a lovely Sunday evening x

@littlejalapeno we tend to prioritise those that make the loudest noise and become the most distressed with lack of sleep.
It really does help when children learn to self settle and makes our job so much easier.

The easiest things to do to adjust his wake time is to move his whole routine forward an hour - so if he currently goes to bed at 7pm, give him his tea an hour later and put him to bed at 8pm. Move his morning nap an hour later too so you don't let him nap before 10.30am and keep that nap short (45 minutes). Then he can have his long nap in the afternoon.

Treat any waking before 7am as a night waking - exactly the same at 5.30am as at midnight or 3am.
Don't get him out of bed, don't talk/ssh only, don't turn lights on.