To think veganism is not for children?

[ohhhhlivia]

Yes, I am aware that it is perfectly possible to have a healthy vegan diet at any age. I know that.

However, it is more difficult and easier to get wrong if you want to be vegan. It still is restrictive (even with all of the new stuff coming out) as in you need to tell hosts, check menus in advance etc.

It's a barrier that has to be overcome. I don't understand why you would do that to someone who has no choice in the matter.

Lots of kids go through a fussy phase too, add veganism in and surely you're at a high risk of health problems?

I think what I'm getting at, is that childhood nutrition can be hard enough as it is, so it just feels wrong to make it harder for reasons that do not directly benefit the child.

@LaurieMarlow

I meant moral in the idea of having a set of morals- I personally have no problem with killing an animal for food. I've done it with rabbits and chickens. Will teach my kids how to do it, and butcher and cook them. That is moral to me, not to a vegan.

Anyway, most of society is not vegan. Take a vegan child to a non-vegan birthday party and there is a barrier between them and being fully involved. Kids with intolerances and allergies have no choice in that. It seems wrong to do it artificially.

(I feel the same about religious diets, btw)

Why make something hard, even harder? Being vegan is not healthier than a balanced, omnivorous diet. So there is no benefit to the child.

I don't really understand what you are getting at. People who bring their children up vegan are presumably vegan themselves with strong views on animal welfare. If it makes something hard, even harder, they obviously feel it's worth it. We all make choices for our kids based on what we think is right.

I meant moral in the idea of having a set of morals- I personally have no problem with killing an animal for food. I've done it with rabbits and chickens. Will teach my kids how to do it, and butcher and cook them. That is moral to me, not to a vegan.

So what are you saying? You are moral but a vegan isn’t?

@formerbabe do you hate peanut butter being called butter?

No.

I'm not making a moral judgement about veganism per se. The point I'm making is that food is not just about nutrition. Lots of people on here are responding to the thread saying that it is perfectly possible to get good nutrition from a vegan diet. It is, but you're making it more difficult to be part of the society we live in. Food is a common social lubricant and transmission of culture. If you're constantly having to say 'thanks, but no thanks' you're restricted.

I also dislike the idea of some food being seen as morally better than other food. That's dangerous.

I recognise @formerbabe from a previous vegan thread. She's obsessed with how good eggs are and also claims to have full scientific evidence about how bad vegan diets are for children. She also says no diet should supplement at all.

Then she revealed her daughter is so fussy and only eats processed ham sandwiches and she didn't realise it was recommended to supplement all diets with vitamin D. And how supplemented formula milk is.

Processed carcinogenic ham. Great mother feeding your child that and spouting about how vegan children need an egg. Which her own child doesn't eat. Absolutely hugely projecting her concern about the trash she feeds her own child and the real concern about nutrition she has in her own household.

Take a vegan child to a non-vegan birthday party and there is a barrier between them and being fully involved. Kids with intolerances and allergies have no choice in that. It seems wrong to do it artificially

I don't think you are making much sense. It seems wrong to you because you value other things over animal welfare. That's your choice. For others, animal welfare is a huge priority, if they can do this whilst meeting their child's nutritional needs then that is their choice. I think you need to be more tolerant.

The point I'm making is that food is not just about nutrition

Agreed

Food is a common social lubricant and transmission of culture. If you're constantly having to say 'thanks, but no thanks' you're restricted.

Again bollocks. You can absolutely take part in the social and cultural dimension of food as a vegan. Why wouldn’t you be able to? How strange to think this way.

I also dislike the idea of some food being seen as morally better than other food. That's dangerous.

It’s undeniably true I’m afraid, whether you like that or not.

How do you feel about food produced by slave labour for example? Morally the same as that produced without? Seriously?

Well to try to answer your questions OP, while I did go vegetarian and now vegan primarily for morel reasons my research since has convinced me absolutely that the best diet for almost anyone including children is a whole food plant based diet. Now I am a fat vegan. I used to eat a lot of cheese as a veggie and transitioned to veganism by eating some processed foods. I also like crisps, chocolate and wine a bit to much! However, I am working on following a whole food plant based diet as much as possible and would say that the vast majority of our meals are now very healthy and cooked from scratch without added oil. I just need to step away from the other crap!

It was never hard raising DS as a small veggie. He loved all starches, fruits and vegetables from the get go and would choose sides of potatoes and vegetables over a kids meal when eating out. As he went to school he ate what he liked and began to add in some meat but we ate mostly veggie at home. He has decided now as a teen to give veganism a try or rather eat more plant based food as he knows it is more healthy.

Maybe have a read of ‘How Not To Die’ by Dr Michael Gregor.

*It is, but you're making it more difficult to be part of the society we live in. Food is a common social lubricant and transmission of culture. If you're constantly having to say 'thanks, but no thanks' you're restricted.

So you think people should forget their principles to fit in with others? Also, it's very easy to eat vegan now, vegan options are widely available and anyone worth knowing will accept people's differences so there's no barrier.

The ignorance of a "few" on here is astounding. Parents have the right to raise their children in the way they feel best, and if that child is healthy and thriving the parent has done a good job. My daughter eats meat but not dairy due to an allergy. I would love her to go vegan but its her choice as she is a teen. If I had anymore children they would be vegan from birth and could then decide when older if they wanted to eat meat. For all those so against veganism please Google plant based diets/watch a documentary etc. Whole generations of humans have survived and thrived on vegetarian diets. A plant based diet is superior to a meat/dairy one in every way. Dairy and meat are killing people every day - do some research and decide for yourself before attacking others.

My son has multiple allergies. As a result, he is being raised vegan, albeit not by choice. I am also vegan as he’s breastfed and reacts to what I eat. He’s allergic to milk, eggs, fish, beef, chicken, tomatoes and peanuts.
He’s under a dietician, and weighed regularly. He’s following the 50th percentile. They are pleased with his progress. He eats pretty much anything you put in front of him (except peas, he HATES peas!).
He probably eats healthier than my older three children, as I have to make a conscious effort to prepare suitable foods. I haven’t found it to be too much harder, and he seems to be healthy so 🤷🏻‍♀️

@NubianVeganQueen

Vegetarian is very different to veganism though. Your post switches between the two.

@LaurieMarlow

If you cannot break bread with someone, it's less easy to bond. That is an undeniable truth throughout history and the world. Sharing food is fundamental. Making that choice for yourself is fair enough. For your kids, well that seems wrong to me.

And no, the slave labour may be bad but the food is still food and to be honest, unless you eat mostly local stuff, you have no idea about that.

@ohhhhlivia based on your opinion would you like to see everyone the same?

We can bond by having different experiences and cultures and ethics around food.

Muslims only eat halal meat for example. You wouldn't need to 'break bread' to bond by sharing the exact same plate of food.

My neighbours and I have a big BBQ every summer, my Brazilian neighbour always cooks chicken hearts. I bring tabbouleh. We don't have to eat the same plate of food to bond.
I feel sorry you are so narrow minded that you don't think you can bond and share experiences with someone without eating an identical plate of food.

No one needs animal fats for their brains to develop it hasn't been 'demonised' it's just that people are FINALLY waking up to the fact we don't need to eat meat.

I'm vegetarian, DH is vegan, DD is 15 months and has been raised vegetarian - although I do allow her fish because nursery eat a lot of fish. She is absolutely perfect in every way.

If she wishes to eat meat when she's older, that's completely fine and her choice. Whilst she's this small, she eats what we buy and eat.

Making that choice for yourself is fair enough. For your kids, well that seems wrong to me.

Yes, you've said that already. People are free to make their own choices and choices for their kids. Get on with your own life and stop judging others.

Why is raising your children vegan forcing your views on them but raising them eating meat/fish/dairy isn’t?

I think raising children with religion is abusive, threatening Hell and or Sky Daddy will punish you but hey ho, a lot of people do it.

And nope I’m not vegan.

My children are vegan as am I. Veganism can be a perfectly healthy diet for children. This is an opinion it’s a medically held fact. I’m a doctor so I honestly if it wasn’t nutritious enough to sustain me and my children, I wouldn’t do it. A lot of children eat diets that are far, far unhealthier than a vegan diet could possibly be e.g full of processed meats and saturated fat. I could go on about facts such as vegan children are considerably less likely to be overweight, are likely to have at least 5 fruit and veg a day but that’s not the point.

I totally why people may be opposed to it. However, i don’t understand the argument of “forcing” it on to your children. Regardless of what diet you offer to your children, you are “forcing” it on them. I “force” good manners, good behaviour, attendance at school etc.

My older twins are 17 and have been vegan since birth and still are. They are perfectly healthy.

It's not forcing your views on them- it's restricting their involvement with many social occasions. Simple things, like sharing a random bag of sweets from the shop. That stuff does matter.

Some kids have no choice for medical reasons, why put your kids in that situation for no actual benefit?

My kids aren't fussy eaters. And one of them is autistic so that's not been an issue. They eat kale, spinach, lentils, nuts, tofu, seeds and tempeh and every other veg and food I've ever offered them. Actually there's a couple of fruits one of them doesn't like. Is that to do with the diet we introduced - always veggie and the last two years vegan - they're now 9 and 12? Hard to know. But obviously if they had been fussy eaters I'd have had to reconsider.

What I find hilarious / bizarre is that people worry about my kids more than those who eat school dinners or turkey twizzlers, chips and beans.

Also this is their choice to go vegan. I brought them up veggie then when I went vegan started to cut down on dairy but didn't forbid it. They also ate dairy at their dad's. Then they decided to go vegan after lots of research and discussion - interestingly as some of the their friends were and not my influence. I allowed that and they're happy and healthy.

if you cannot break bread with someone, it's less easy to bond

Bread is vegan. Your point?

Seriously though, you absolutely don’t have to eat exactly the same food as others to bond. How bizarre to suggest you do. Are ppl with allergies/religious restrictions/limited diets unable to bond? Of course not.

You are relying in increasingly bizarre justifications to make your point. I get you feel you’re right on some emotional level, but there’s no logic to back it up.

Loads of kids cant share food for lots of reasons. I live in a multicultural area and my children will go to school with kids who can't eat gelatine, who can't eat non kosher, who may be allergic.

Life is diverse and the more diversity and different foods the better. Hopefully there will be less people who are small minded then

What I find hilarious / bizarre is that people worry about my kids more than those who eat school dinners or turkey twizzlers, chips and beans.

I know right?

And the amount of people on here who think that kind of food on a regular basis is fine is mind blowing

And there are benefits to going vegan...

I feel more sorry for your children who must be being taught a lesson that they can only bond and socialise with people who are the same as them.

Let's hope there's no Jewish, Muslim, ital, vegan, vegetarian (who won't eat sweets with gelatine) or children with allergies that they may want to socialise with - because mummy has taught them they are different and can't share and bond.