To think veganism is not for children?

[ohhhhlivia]

Yes, I am aware that it is perfectly possible to have a healthy vegan diet at any age. I know that.

However, it is more difficult and easier to get wrong if you want to be vegan. It still is restrictive (even with all of the new stuff coming out) as in you need to tell hosts, check menus in advance etc.

It's a barrier that has to be overcome. I don't understand why you would do that to someone who has no choice in the matter.

Lots of kids go through a fussy phase too, add veganism in and surely you're at a high risk of health problems?

I think what I'm getting at, is that childhood nutrition can be hard enough as it is, so it just feels wrong to make it harder for reasons that do not directly benefit the child.

OP I totally disagree. Being the same as everyone else is not everyone's priority, some people see their values as more important than making sure they have access to a sausage at a party.

The more people that refuse animal products, the more vegan alternatives there are and the less ostracizing it is, I personally am not vegan but there are many times I will eat vegan when I have the choice and I see that as a good thing.

I also think it is fair to put a moral slant on the eating of animals because they are living, conscious beings, it's not a low fat Vs full fat kind of argument. Consuming animal products is something that has to be considered ethically even if you don't agree it is wrong.

It is straightforward to eat a varied and healthy vegan diet with a bit of thought to it, however some vegans are the exercise/low calorie obsessed types who will starve their kids. That being said, there are more malnourished meat eating kids who live off chips and nuggets.

The problem with dairy as a source of calcium is that whilst it is rich in that particular mineral, it contains other compounds that actually deplete calcium from the bones. That's why osteoporosis is hugely higher in countries that consume high amounts of dairy, but relatively unknown in cultures that get their calcium from other sources. The meat and dairy lobby is pretty powerful. I'm looking at a jar of almond butter - just 100g gives 30% of RDA of calcium with none of the drawbacks. I'm also looking at a carton of cow's milk where 200ml gives 29% of the rda. Yes, one is cheaper than the other but that's only because the industry pays dairy farmers peanuts. Apart from B12 almond butter is also far superior in all other nutrients. And that's just one vegan product out of hundreds.

It's also something my kids will eat lots of which is another win. And we're not even vegan.

A lot of vegan food that is in the supermarkets is anything but healthy.
Coconut oil / filler laden fat full. Sainsbury’s vegan range a lot of it is classed as red on the label due to fat content. Not to mention a salt content.

Why is everyone obsessing about 'nuggets and chips'?

Assuming this is chicken nuggets and potato chips?

So chicken and potatoes? Why is that so horrendous? You can get vegan nuggets now though..

I think there is more than a bit of class prejudice going on there...

Another odd thing about this thread: lots of people concerned about the ethics of killing animals but the ethics of children having less opportunity to have a healthy diet, is not worth considering. No, that's being horrible and judgemental.

It's an odd bit of double think.

So Laurie, why do you care about the welfare of some cow you will never meet? It has nothing to do with you. Maybe you should mind your business?

Sainsbury’s vegan range a lot of it is classed as red on the label due to fat content. Not to mention a salt content.

The chicken nuggets, turkey twizlers and frozen hamburgers on the other hand are green, green, green.

Oh wait

So Laurie, why do you care about the welfare of some cow you will never meet?

I don’t.

I’m not vegan. I love meat too much.

But I cannot fathom why you would give a shit what other people feed their children.

Has anyone seen that episode of The Good Place where they discover no-one has got into the real heaven for hundreds of years because of the exploitation inherent in the way goods and services are produced and sold and the fact the people are often fully aware of it but simply don't care?

Fair enough!

Though to answer your question, probably for the same reason that I care about animal welfare.

What do you care about? Beyond your own home and family? Anything?

Bit limited, don't you think?

*Why is everyone obsessing about 'nuggets and chips'?

Assuming this is chicken nuggets and potato chips?

So chicken and potatoes? Why is that so horrendous?*

Is this a joke? A nugget and chips is quite far away from an actual chicken breast and a potato. Nuggets are so processed that most of the content of cheap ones isn't actually chicken, and the chicken that's in there is the horrible gristly parts. Oven chips are ridiculously processed and coated in oil.

What do you care about? Beyond your own home and family? Anything?

I care about lots of things.

But perfectly healthy choices other parents have made that are different to mine - not so much.

I really don’t get it. Strikes me as defensive.

What's wrong with the gristle? It had some of the best flavour as it tends to be nearer the bone. Any chef will tell you that meat nearer the bone has more depth of flavour. Chicken breast meat is actually the least interesting part of the bird.

Gristle, tendons, marrow, offal etc have textures that modern people struggle with. Lovely in soup or mince though!

Anyway, you can get or make some very good chicken nuggets.

It's the ones made if mechanically recovered meat that are not good- but so are the vegan ones.

OP, I'm genuinely very curious about what you personally believe constitutes a healthy diet?

It's fuck all to do with class prejudice, I mentioned nuggets and chips and I'm working class OP. Nobody is "obsessing" over nuggets and chips, it's pointing out that a certain brand holier than thou meat eaters have a shite diet and give their kids the same processed meat every day, yet proclaim how much healthier their diet is.

*certain brand of

I'm not sure that veganism is a perfectly healthy choice for young children. That's the point!

I think it's quite telling that there is no such thing as vegan formula.

@ohhhhlivia except there is www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.plantbasednews.org/.amp/lifestyle/vegan-baby-formula-what-you-need-to-know

You are twisting things to suit your argument tbh OP. You don't want kids to be vegan, whatever, then don't feed your kids a vegan diet.

People are allowed to care about the welfare of animals. Saying it is "double think" because this supposedly means kids can't have a healthy diet is just twisting things. The fact is kids can eat healthily on a vegan diet and unhealthily eating meat. You can have your opinion on what is best but banging on about malnourished kids is just irrelevant.

I think it's quite telling that there is no such thing as vegan formula.

Yes, because all the non breastfed babies who are allergic to cow's milk are just left in the woods to die like in Sparta.

Of course non-dairy formula exists, OP.

Also double think does not mean what you think it does - check a dictionary

Even more crazy than ordinary veganism is raw veganism. I once met a friend of a friend who was a raw vegan. I didn't know until after my first meeting with him that he was. When I first saw him, I genuinely thought he must have been ill, as in seriously terminally ill...not wanting to offend anyone. I really did assume he was very unwell. Dreadful

Okay but why make a thread about it? If your children aren’t vegan ...

I'm not sure that veganism is a perfectly healthy choice for young children. That's the point!

So what do you think is lacking, apart from the B12 point, which most people seem to be deficient in and dependent on fortification?

I'm not sure that veganism is a perfectly healthy choice for young children. That's the point!

Your 'point' changes every time you post OP!

Done properly, with informed sensible parents, a vegan diet is a perfectly healthy choice. That's what people are saying. Yes it's more difficult, but the difficulty is the parent's to deal with, and clearly vegan parents on the whole are prepare to deal with the extra difficulty. It's no more difficult for the child than any other diet or food preference.

Done badly, yes it could be unhealthy. But so could any diet. That's a reflection on the parenting, not the diet.

Also, do you start threads about the non began kids with unhealthy diets? Of which there are many?