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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To refuse to sign new tenancy agreement?

24 replies

hobbler · 31/10/2019 14:40

My current fixed short term tenancy agreement comes to an end today. The estate agent has contacted me to try and get me to sign a new one, for two years Shock Me and my boyfriend are hoping to move in together soon (into a different/bigger rented property) possibly early new year, so signing something for two years isn’t suitable for me. The agent has said the LL is willing to put in a 6 month break clause, which I think means I could move out in May 2020 if I’d given notice. I suggested a rolling contact but the agent said “no, the LL wants the security” - -(and as usual, tough shit to what the tenant wants in their life)
Apparently if I want to move out in early new year for example, I’d be liable for the rent until a new tenant was found.
I didn’t seem to be given a choice of anything other than sign this new tenancy agreement which is apparently now on its way to me in the post. I’m tempted to just not sign it but I don’t want to find myself evicted and/or with a bad reference for future tenancies. AIBU?

OP posts:
SocksRock · 31/10/2019 14:44

Unfortunately I think they've left it too late given that you haven't signed yet. If you haven't received a section 21 notice to end your current tenancy, as of midnight tonight you will automatically transfer to a rolling tenancy.

SocksRock · 31/10/2019 14:45

They will then have to give you two months notice to end on a rent day, so unless they do that tomorrow, you effectively have 3 months before they can evict you. Would that be long enough?

LaurieFairyCake · 31/10/2019 14:45

You don't have to sign it. You will go onto an automatic rolling one month tenancy.

They can give you notice to leave but they have to follow proper procedures- it would be about 3 months if they decided to do it.

GuessWhoColeen · 31/10/2019 14:46

Could you find somewhere that offers short term? We have lots of winter lets here.

I would be tempted to move out somewhere for 6 months!

SocksRock · 31/10/2019 14:47

Your rent day is 1st of the month. So the earliest you can be evicted is 1st February, assuming the give you notice before 1st December.

You need to give 1 months notice to end on a rent day.

All this assumes you are not in Scotland which I think has different provisions

MayTheLordOpen · 31/10/2019 14:48

If your tenancy has already expired then your Landlord is too late and you are already on a rolling contract before the new contract arrives. If they want you to move out of the property, they would have to serve you a Section 21 which can only be served on the rent due date meaning if they think you are happy to sign, I would let them believe that and then just not sign it. If the Landlord wanted you out, he would have to wait til the next month to serve two months notice.

Notwiththeseknees · 31/10/2019 14:55

Yes keep schtum for now. You don't want a Section 21 hand delivered today - I don't know if tomorrow counts, so let it go until Saturday if you want to stay on your automatic rolling contract.
Otherwise go for the 6 months break clause.

JonSlow · 31/10/2019 15:09

As everyone above has expertly said... sign nothing and you’ll end up winning

TwistinMyMelon · 31/10/2019 15:13

My landlady tried to do this to me, I just said "no thank you". They obviously think you are good tenants otherwise they wouldn't have asked you to stay for 2 years. So just say you want a rolling contract. They will be unlikely to serve you notice as they want the place occupied, and as others have said they wouldn't be able to get you out quickly anyway...

DuckbilledSplatterPuff · 31/10/2019 15:28

You can always phone the Shelter charity. They have really good legal advice in these situations

mencken · 31/10/2019 15:40

England - you are now on a rolling tenancy and on two months notice from the landlord, one month from you. There are rules on when notice can be served.

no need to phone Shelter, all the info is on gov.uk (quite a lot links to Shelter's info anyway)

the landlord may well want the security (although no-one can be forced to say) and the agent certainly wants the fees. (at least you no longer pay those) But you hold al the cards IF you are prepared to risk two month's notice. Just don't sign.

any landlord who worried about this appearing on a reference isn't someone you would want to rent from.

all in the how to rent guide. And not that I recommend it, but eviction takes up to six months, broken court system.

mencken · 31/10/2019 15:41

sorry - no-one can be forced to STAY, although if you did commit to six months you would indeed be liable for that period as rental. If the landlord went to court.

Newoneonherr · 31/10/2019 15:53

Dirty tricks depend on if you need a reference from your current LL.

I would never provide a reference for any tenant who tried to pull a fast one. Legally you might be fine to force a rolling contract, but you need to be certain that you don't need anything from your LL in the future.

As usual, tough shit to what the tenant want in their life

Well, it's a business, not a housing charity. The above illustrates the main benefit of buying over renting.

mencken · 31/10/2019 16:06

WTAF?

yes,being a landlord is a business. Part of it is that tenants move on. There's no 'dirty trick' about going on to a rolling contract. As a landlord I prefer it anyway, the normal people can stay as long as they like and I don't have to pay lease fees. I give a maximum of a year's tenancy and then it goes periodic.

not being insane, I'm not going to evict as I don't want a void. The property isn't in London so I can't double the rent for the next tenant anyway, which is what the Guardian assumes happens when landlords 'evict on a whim'.

'dear next landlord, these tenants are not recommended because they decided to move out'. That would be an amusing reference...

Veganmedic · 31/10/2019 16:08

I had a similar thread earlier this year. Even being told that this was what was best for landlord. In the end I replied that while it may suit the landlord, signing for a further fixed term was not an option for us and that we would only continue on a rolling tenancy basis. This has worked perfectly as we will be moving out soon into our first bought home and the fixed term would have made this so difficult. Letting agents didn’t like it but ultimately it’s business-if they want a fixed term tenant they can give notice and find someone new. Quite unlikely though if you are good tenants.

mencken · 31/10/2019 16:14

reminder that your contract is with the LANDLORD. The agent may not even have spoken to them, their incentive is to get tenancy renewal fees which the landlord pays. Agents are totally unregulated and they can prey on tenants who aren't aware of their rights. Which are all detailed in the how to rent guide that must be given to every tenant.

the agent doesn't decide when to give notice, either. The landlord does.

if you can be bothered, you could write (grownup comms) to the landlord asking what they want to do. But you don't have to.

IamtheDevilsAvocado · 01/11/2019 02:38

Don't sign anything... I think you'll be on a statutory periodic.... They won't be able to get you out quickly... At least a few months.... And many of s21 notices are served incorrectly anyway... So they'd be struck out if they went to court!

YobaOljazUwaque · 01/11/2019 03:09

Unless you are in a highly desirable area and paying below-market rent they won't evict you. Sit tight and be polite, keep paying the rent on time

Original poster
hobbler · 19/11/2019 15:24

Update: the tenancy agreement arrived in the post which I ignored. The letting agency tried to call me to chase it up which I just didn’t respond to. Now my landlord started texting me yesterday asking when I’m going to return the agreement. I explained that after reading through it even with the break clause I am unable to sign in to anything fixed at the moment due to my circumstances and it’s too restrictive. He then said he “Unfortunately didn’t want a rolling tenancy” and asked me to let him know what term I would be willing to sign for in order to reach a compromise. However there IS no term I wish to sign for, as I may want to move out any time from after Christmas. I haven’t responded to this last message and I’m getting annoyed at being pestered about this now. I’m going to leave it until he messages again and then reiterate that I’m not in a position to sign a further agreement at this time.
Am I still being reasonable here Confused

OP posts:
SillyMoomin · 19/11/2019 15:33

Well, you are a bit OP

Surely you can see the landlord would equally like security in their lets, which is why they don’t want a rolling contract.

Stick to the enforced rolling now you’re on it by all means, but if the landlord does decide to evict and start the 3 months process, don’t get upset if he wants you out by 1st feb and you’ve decided you haven’t found anywhere else to live yet/ don’t want to move out yet

Veganmedic · 19/11/2019 16:11

All you can really do is reply that you do not currently wish to leave but you are not willing to sign a fixed term. They would be pretty silly to evict as they may as well leave you there until you decide to leave rather than risk it standing empty. However you should be prepared this might happen. Whilst I appreciate that landlords like stability of a fixed term -they get that initially and I’m not sure it’s fair to expect tenants to keep signing fixed term when it’s not in their interest if they plan to move as we did for example. Ultimately it’s a business property and subject to risk.

RhiWrites · 19/11/2019 16:15

On the landlord side they have two options, allow you to stay on a rolling tenancy (which now becomes the default automatic position) or give you notice to leave. It only becomes an eviction “on your record” if you don’t leave when given notice.

From your side, you are now on a rolling tenancy but they can give you notice to leave. So you could offer three months initially, since that sounds like your timeframe.

JasonPollack · 19/11/2019 16:51

It's fine you are still perfectly within your rights. Just because a rolling isn't convenient for the landlord doesn't mean you need to do something which is inconvenient for you!

mencken · 19/11/2019 18:21

write to your rather dippy landlord explaining the position, that you are planning to move in the new year and hence cannot commit to a new fixed term.

the agent wants you to sign up because they get fees.
the landlord wants you to sign up because they don't want a void - but tough, you are planning to leave anyway.

the landlord could give you two months notice, even if that can be issued today it takes you to late January. You don't need to leave at the end of that, he could then start eviction proceedings but what's the point with a tenant who is going anyway? Just give your month's notice in writing when you are ready.

not wanting to accept facts doesn't change them. Your landlord needs to learn his business. Tenants move on.

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