To think that if you have the funds to pay for your care home needs then you absoloutley should?

[BernadetteRostankowskiWolowitz]

Interesting chat with a friend the other day about the extortionate costs of care homes and how if you live in social housing/rental and are on benefits then the government will pay for your care yet if you have "worked hard all your life and want to leave something for your kids" you are made to sell your home / use savings to pay for your care.

Friend is of the opinion that everyone who requires a care home should have it paid for by the government. So essentially a "hand out" yet also is of the opinion that those on benefits are getting "hand outs" and looks on them with scorn.

My personal opinion is that if you have the means to fund your own care home needs then yes; you absoloutley should pay for some or all of that. Why should the government fork out millions for every care home resident in the country so that a vast amount of them can then hand their properties and extensive savings down to their children?

It's simply not viable to fund 100% of care home needs across the country and if you are the kind of person who gets smug about "paying my way all my life" to the tune of living mortgage free in a 300k plus home with vast savings then you should be happy to continue "paying your way" til the end.

I also pointed out to her that as she will be funding her own care she will likely have more say in where she goes.

The end result was we both agreed the best solution was to swerve the care home altogether but I wondered whether I was BU to expect someone who can afford to pay for their care to actually pay for their care?

When you apply for a student loan, everyone's income is taken into account. I think immediate childrens income should be means tested and a contribution should be made if their income is aboove a certain level.

Parents have a responsibility for their children. While it's nice if children want to help out their parents, and I certainly will if I can, I don't think it should be a legal responsibility.

Plus, as I said, it would impact on my ability to save for my old age.

Absolutely

There isn’t an easy answer. Not everyone will be happy with whatever system we have.
It boils done too - we can keep people alive from diseases that once would have swiftly killed them, however we do not know what to do/how to provide the care they need. Certainly this is true when a form or forms of dementia are added into the mix.
Some people are too sick or disabled to be cared for at home in the community and for whatever reason do not have the funds to be self funding.
We are supposed to be a caring society. When it gets to the point someone needs residential and/or nursing care it’s too late to consider their past financial errors. Care needs to be provided by the state (via tax) If they can’t afford it. - the alternative is to leave them outside on a cold night to the release of hypothermia.
I hope we are not that mercenary.

Bargebill - excellent post.

Bargebill I do not disagree and yes some won’t be able to self-fund and the state cover. Those that can with assets should.

Reading this thread has actually changed my view.
People saying why would you work hard your whole life to pay for a house just to have to sell it for care the same as someone who contributes nothing gets. Well I think you need to look at the bigger picture and forget about the care home and beyond (death). What you’ve done is afforded yourself a decent retirement. The person next to you in the care home receiving the same care with no contribution may well have been in a council property where you have very little choice of where you live, really struggled with very little money for how ever many years, possibly been in private rent so worked hard there whole life the same as you! What you’ve done is afforded yourself choice! Once your in a position to NEED a care home it is generally the end of the line there is no going back ( grim I know ) but instead of worrying about why you’ve worked so hard for nothing .. you haven’t... you’ve worked so hard to have a good life, your life is now ending. We are all born with nothing. We die with nothing. I sort of agree with inheritance being abolished. I believe this will help future generations much more than inheritance!! It also comes down to individual vulnerable people, it’s all well and good saying they shouldn’t get the same care as me because of finances but would you really look at the person next to you and think ‘they don’t deserve the same care as me’ - THAT is awful 😑

My dad always rented and still pays top dollar for his care! His in the same situation as someone who is a home owner. No logic to any of it really and nobody on here is either wrong or right!

@The80sweregreat that’s amazing he managed to rent and save that amount of money 😱
I rent paying nearly £1000 a month. Yet my parents have made over £500,000 on their home there’s no way I could save that amount whilst renting.

If it's a legal requirement for children to pay for care then the homeless rate will soar and soar!

My dad was a council tenant ; he saved and saved and lived a frugal life. He has enough savings for about one more year or so. His rent was t as much as private rent is and didn't live in an expensive area for council
Once his down to 23,000 he shd receive help then! I hope!

@The80sweregreat that’s great he was in the position to. I hope even once his money runs out he receives the best care possible! Unfortunately though and not always through poor financial choices, people aren’t able to save/or have a home as an asset to sell and all deserve a quality level of care in their last days :)

I don’t think my DM’s dementia is caused by unhealthy lifestyle choices. She’s only 68 and physically very fit, slim, doesn’t smoke etc. She’s had dementia a couple of years, she constantly repeats herself, doesn’t normally know what day if the week it is so trying to make any plans to see her is a nightmare. She’s now taken a huge dislike to me but likes everyone else (I know it’s the illness). I don’t know how long it will be before she forgets who we are. It’s so sad and feels 10 years ahead of when I thought this may happen.

It’s a tricky issue but I tend to think that there should be a cap placed on how much an individual has to spend on Care home fees. Whether that’s £50k or £200k I don’t know.

@NC4this123 very well put. We come into the world with nothing and it's fine to leave with nothing.

As for inheritance, it perpetuates inequality. The rich pass on money, the poor have none to pass on. The children of the rich have nearly always had a better life and better prospects than the poor without even considering inheritance.

And why are house prices so high now? Partly because the banks lend more than they used to, but it's partly fuelled by the older generation passing down money, either via inheritance or earlier.

Of course, the problem with abolishing inheritance is that, as always, the super rich would find a way round any regulations.

I sort of agree with inheritance being abolished. I believe this will help future generations much more than inheritance!!

I don't know about abolished, but it could be limited. Nobody needs to inherit millions, but I think most parents who have a (relatively) small amount of savings probably like the idea of leaving something to their children. And of course when a parent dies when their children are young (or their adult child has additional needs) it seems harsh for the state to take everything, so an exception should probably be made for dependents.

Dad couldn't buy his house but he did enjoy the benefits of being a tenant. People think it's bad living on a council estate , but years ago they were decorated to a high standard and boilers were replaced etc. They came out for any emergencies. His council were good though , I know many are not! The rent was affordable for them to pay.
He could have made money on it but I like to think it has gone to a deserving family now.

Likewise my in laws old home too. They didn't want to buy it either for a load of reasons but that house is falling down so I'm glad we haven't the upkeep of that place!
Anyway, the care situation does need addressing and made fairer. How to do this is another matter of course. First thing that's asked is ' do you own a property?'
..

NC4this123

Alternatively the person next to you in the care home paying nothing has lived a great life - lots of holidays, clothes, partying, treating his family and is now being cared for by the state while you have saved and lived a careful life, reluctant to spend because you wanted to have money to give to your children when you die rather than giving it to them while you're alive but now that's being taken to fund your care.

Is that right? That you can throw your money away during your younger life and be funded by the state while others who are responsible get penalised in their old age?

while you have saved and lived a careful life, reluctant to spend because you wanted to have money to give to your children when you die

You are far more likely to have acquired your wealth due to rocketing house prices.

If everyone has the ' live it up ' now attitude the social care bill will go up even more in the future although you can't blame people really! Will councils start asking for bank statements!? Things over six years are not normally looked into I believe. Plus the ones that put it under the mattress might also gain.
A lot of people are relying on inheritance.
Some will win and some will lose! (Most people I'm not that keen on will become really wealthy I bet! Lol)
Such is life.

“ Alternatively the person next to you in the care home paying nothing has lived a great life - lots of holidays, clothes, partying, treating his family and is now being cared for by the state while you have saved and lived a careful life, reluctant to spend because you wanted to have money to give to your children when you die rather than giving it to them while you're alive but now that's being taken to fund your care.”

Exactly what my late father said. I’m single and childfree, let’s imagine I decide to blow my savings in a casino before going to a care home!

I think the current threshold for getting help,is far too low. What were those people paying taxes for? unnecessary elections I guess.

Would taking out equity release loans be classed as deprivation of assets?

staff are on minimum wage and the owner is driving a maserati
this shows us that the purpose of the care home is to liquidate the assets of elderly people and turn them into luxury cars for care home owners.
The elderly person functions as a resource to be exploited, like a farmer milking cows etc

It's not always lifestyle that can cause these brain diseases
many seem not to understand the distinctions between causes, correlations, risk factors etc

They have linked glandular fever and head injuries to dementia risk.