To want the speed limit properly enforced?

[SpeedLimitCompliant]

Name changed as this could identify the area where I live.

Our area is in the process of changing over to a 20 mph speed limit on virtually all the roads, and has begun with a couple of quite busy roads that are my routes to work. I comply with it because, well, it's the law, but the vast majority of drivers seem to be happily ignoring it. That means that I'm constantly being tailgated and/or am at the front of a queue of traffic comprising drivers who are plainly itching to get past me. No effort seems be made to enforce the limit, though I think there was recently an event where the council/highways authority tried to recruit volunteer monitors. No idea if they succeeded, but if they didn't, it's not very evident.

Whilst I don't wish ill on anyone, I do feel that, if the authorities want this speed limit to work, the only thing that will get it through to drivers will be a realistic threat of prosecution. If they're not interested, they should forget the whole idea. AIBU to wish that they'd pull their fingers out, actually employ someone go go out and enforce the law proactively, and show that the speed limit should be complied with?

20 is not legally enforceable unfortunately. The road my children have to cross to get to school is a busy road which was recently made a 20. It's barely made any difference and when I complained that's what I was told. Yanbu to be annoyed. I am annoyed too!!

That one surprised me, so I went Googling. There's guidance issued in 2013 (www.gov.uk/government/publications/20-mph-speed-limits-on-roads) which indicates that the assumption is that 20 mph limits are mostly intended to be self-enforcing, partly by the use of road humps etc, and that the police don't expect to get involved much beyond their usual activities. It also appears that there is a difference between 20 mph zones, which are meant to be self-enforcing, and 20 mph limits, which will be enforced. RoSPA guidance says:

"20mph limits consist of just a speed limit change but no physical measures to reduce vehicle speeds within the areas. Drivers are alerted to the speed limit with 20mph speed limit repeater signs."

"20mph limits are most appropriate for roads where average speeds are already low — the guidance suggests below 24mph. The layout and use of the road must also give the clear impression that a 20mph speed or below is the most appropriate."

That surprises me, because two of the roads where this applies on my route to work actually have never been ones where average speeds are already low, except maybe in the rush hour: They're quite wide and straightish, not particularly parked up, and in fact a longish stretch of one of them is by a park so there's no reason for it to be parked up. The only measure they seem to have taken is to put up the warning signs, there's no sign of humps or chicanes.

What's the difference between a 20 mph zone and a 20 mph limit?

What's the difference between a 20 mph zone and a 20 mph limit?

Limit applies to a stretch of road, whereas zone is all roads within ... well a zone. Once you pass the "20" indicator, it's 20mph until you pass a sign stating it's the end of the zone (usually by indicating 30).

Not sure why a pp thought 20 can't be enforced ? Assuming it's been correctly set up by the local authority, it can and (in Birmingham, where a lot of side roads are now 20 zones with more being added) it is.

Eventually average speed cameras will be rolled out to enforce them.

20mph limits are enforceable, I have 3 points

20mph limits are a nightmare. Ridiculously slow and just causes traffic to bunch up so getting out of side roads etc just become really difficult so people start to take risks etc

YANBU OP - limits should either be enforced or not imposed.

I agree lemon.
It sounds like one of the many 20mph limits put in place off the back of people whining but then isn't enforced and people ignore it because there's no need for it to be at 20mph so people do a more appropriate under 30.

There was a NIMBY type campaign to reduce some roads near me to 20mph. The central argument was that they didn't like the minority of drivers speeding over 30. Never occurred to them that the people doing 35 in a 30 aren't going to magically do 20.

Our area are in the process of doing this too, I was behind a police car doing 30mph on one of the newly marked roads the other day- 20mph signs painted on the road and red/ white signs on the side of the road.

What is the point if everyone is just going to keep driving at 30mph?

I can't see the point of 20 zones, it actually increases pollution. Better to enforce the limits we have already.

I can't see the point of 20 zones, it actually increases pollution.

But reduces the chances of a fatality if a pedestrian is hit by a car.

Better to enforce the limits we have already.

Because undertakers need the work ?

Our area are in the process of doing this too, I was behind a police car doing 30mph on one of the newly marked roads the other day- 20mph signs painted on the road and red/ white signs on the side of the road.

Was it actually in force ?

In Birmingham they did a lot of work putting the repeaters and on-tarmac signs up before they put the proper approved signage up that marks it as a 20 zone.

I was "lucky" enough to attend a speed awareness course five years back. The instructors were absolutely emphatic that speeding is not going to continue to be tolerate as it has been, They then listed all the changes drivers will see - and need to get used to - over the next 10 years. Average speed cameras being used on A roads - check. Reduction in speed limits across the UK - check. Increasing use of 20mph speed limits - check. Introduction of 20mph zones - check.

We've not yet seen the tolerances being reduced, but eventually "even" 1mph over will be enforced - that's down the line.

On the plus side, it has become much harder to speed on quite a few roads. When most drivers are sticking to the limit in traffic, it's practically impossible to go any faster.

I'd have no problem with complying with the 20 mph limit but for the fact that, when I do, I invariably have someone virtually stuck to my bumper and obviously doing their best to transmit beams of hatred towards me, followed by a long tail of equally impatient drivers. I long to find myself behind someone else doing 20 so that they can direct their loathing to that person instead of me.

I really think that if road authorities want to put these speed limits in, they should be prepared to put their money where their mouths are and put effective enforcement in place. It worked like a dream with things like seatbelts and drink driving.

I really think that if road authorities want to put these speed limits in, they should be prepared to put their money where their mouths are and put effective enforcement in place.

Not that simple. You can't just make a road 20mph by putting up signs and road markings. You need the statutory legislation, i.e. legal formalities, which would need to be done for every affected road, so would take the council huge amounts of time/money to do. Hence why it's not legally enforceable.

It's the same reason why on some roads, the double yellow lines aren't enforced - the police and traffic wardens know what's legally enforceable and what isn't.

I really think that if road authorities want to put these speed limits in, they should be prepared to put their money where their mouths are and put effective enforcement in place. It worked like a dream with things like seatbelts and drink driving

I think there's still a feeling that the "nudge theory" works best for such changes.

I live rurally. The roads around here are pretty much lawless. Some shit for brains bellend overtook me on a blind bend last night, after aggressively tailgating me, he was nano seconds away from a head on collision with an oncoming car. I commute to the station daily and the first stretch of proper road I hit is a 30. NO ONE sticks to the limit. I am overtaken daily. There is never any police presence to witness this, typically the first police car I have seen in months followed me for miles a couple of weeks ago, the only fucker who sticks to the bleedin limit

More often than not, I’ll get stuck behind someone doing 40 on a 60 stretch who then does 40 on a 30. Utter shambles.

I’ll get shot down for this but it’s always Range Rover Sport, Audi or white van drivers who drive the most aggressively / dangerously. They have taken over the BMW wankstain baton around here

I live rurally. The roads around here are pretty much lawless

I know it's not funny, but apparently Tommy Tiernan once hosted a radio show in Ireland where listeners used to call in and give tips on the best roads for drink driving.

I think it just takes time to bed in. I lived in a city where most residential areas are 20 zones. I naturally drive at that speed in residential areas now, but it felt strange and unnatural at first.

You get the odd car going faster but I think after a while the slower pace just becomes normal. I don't feel that my journeys take longer, driving is more relaxed and I like how it makes me feel as a pedestrian with small children.

You can't just make a road 20mph by putting up signs and road markings. You need the statutory legislation, i.e. legal formalities, which would need to be done for every affected road, so would take the council huge amounts of time/money to do. Hence why it's not legally enforceable

Our council has put up signs and painted lots of road markings, and is trying to recruit volunteers to stand around with speed guns (apparently not very successfully).. Is it really possible they've done all that without getting the legislation in place? How would any driver know whether they had or hadn't?

YANBU, areas where they have lowered the speed limit but not enforced it often see a rise in fatalities.

If you are going to prioritise the safety of pedestrians who use the road improperly over air quality or emissions you should actually make sure that those people are safer rather than in greater danger.

I got honked and flashed at along with reved engine overtaking and hand gestures when I did 20mph near Edgbaston cricket ground. Those brummies were super snarky about me keeping to their city's limits

20mph limits in my town, very much enforced, especially around school times.

I drive to work on a 60mph stretch which drops to a 30mph limit as you pass by a school and village. School time it drops to 20mph.

Everyday I have someone right up me, but it is fairly hard to stick at 20 (usually 22) due to having previously been doing 60, so your perception is out.

You can't just make a road 20mph by putting up signs and road markings. You need the statutory legislation, i.e. legal formalities, which would need to be done for every affected road, so would take the council huge amounts of time/money to do.

Well, here are links to maps that Birmingham council has done that for. Hundreds of roads (formed into zones mainly)

www.birmingham.gov.uk/info/50214/20mph_slower_is_safer/324/20mph_speed_limits_in_birmingham_slower_is_safer/2

Hence why it's not legally enforceable

Hence why it is legally enforceable.

Seems to me that speeding (for some) is like crack cocaine, and they will do anything to justify their fix.

I drive to work on a 60mph stretch which drops to a 30mph limit as you pass by a school and village. School time it drops to 20mph.

On the speed awareness course I attended, the instructors showed the output of a traffic census by a school which was on a 30mph road (they showed us a picture as part of the "determine the speed limit" exercise). 2 cars were caught going past at over 60, and one at 94.

I've lost interest in all excuses for speeding ever since.

but it is fairly hard to stick at 20

Not really sure why speed limiters (mine is never off) aren't required accessories on new cars.

I really think that if road authorities want to put these speed limits in, they should be prepared to put their money where their mouths are and put effective enforcement in place.

Highways can't enforce the speed limit though, that's the job of the Police.