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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

to think I shouldn't have a disciplinary due to not getting a promotion

67 replies

UnderHisEyeBall · 29/10/2019 15:02

For a position that was never advertised?

One of the points in a letter that has been sent to me and HR by my manager as he starts disciplinary proceedings against me is that I would be expected 'by now' (18 months into starting the role) to be in a position to be promoted, to a deputy role that doesn't exist yet. And nor have they advertised this one.

This smacks of clutching at straws. Or is it just me?

OP posts:

cdtaylornats · 29/10/2019 16:29

What they are saying is "you should be at a level where we would feel confident about promoting you".

This happens all the time - the most obvious being police. Sergeants exams take place regularly, if you pass then you don't get to be a sergeant until a post becomes available - even then you are just entitled to apply for it.

WhisperingPines · 29/10/2019 16:44

What if OP is comfortable working in a role at her/his level? Perhaps OP doesn't want to work at a higher level.

LolaSmiles · 29/10/2019 16:47

What if OP is comfortable working in a role at her/his level? Perhaps OP doesn't want to work at a higher level.
They're not saying she has to be working in a promoted post. They're saying 18 months into a post they should be demonstrating the competency in her existing job to move to that level.

Essentially, for whatever reason, they've got an idea of what expectations are for X post holder after 18 months and the OP in whatever way appears to be not meeting that.

underneaththeash · 29/10/2019 16:53

How exactly is it worded?

TheMasterBaker · 29/10/2019 16:53

Not a well know insurer/pension provider is it? My husband had this and then just before his 2 year anniversary, was made 'redundant'. Essentially all they did was rename the position and hired someone younger. His performance was fine, he'd had great appraisals then they decided he was under-performing, put on a performance plan and got rid of soon after.
I'd start looking for a new job, the best time to look for a job is when you still have one.

NurseButtercup · 29/10/2019 16:56

@UnderHisEyeBall

Yes it is a performance plan. They want me out. It's just the point about not being in a position to be promoted to a position that doesn't exist is odd, as I don't know how on earth I can defend myself against it as achieving this aim would be literally impossible.

Do you want to fight and stay or leave? I think this would be a better focus for you. The participants to this thread will be able to advise you on how best to proceed.

ThatMuppetShow · 29/10/2019 17:01

What if OP is comfortable working in a role at her/his level? Perhaps OP doesn't want to work at a higher level.

replace level by targets, it doesn't matter if someone is "comfortable" reaching low target if it's not what is expected of them.

People cruising along are hardly worth keeping

Vanhi · 29/10/2019 17:03

They're not proposing a disciplinary because you haven't been promoted, they're proposing a disciplinary because you haven't reached the level of performance they feel they need from you.

This. So, it's possibly they're a shitty company and are just trying to push you out for whatever reason. It's possible your manager isn't supportive enough. It's also possible you're not motivated enough in that role. Question is, do you want to stay and try and fix the problem or do you think it's better to leave? Only the last one can be fixed by you anyway.

Beveren · 29/10/2019 17:03

It's just the point about not being in a position to be promoted to a position that doesn't exist is odd, as I don't know how on earth I can defend myself against it as achieving this aim would be literally impossible.

No, they seem to be saying that if there were a position available, you wouldn't be fit to be promoted to it anyway. That 's what you need to address.

ReanimatedSGB · 29/10/2019 17:16

I appreciate that you may not want to go into details as to what your job is, but have there been other complaints about your performance? Are you completing fewer tasks than your colleagues, making lots of errors, needing more support than anyone at your level?
It sounds as though they want to be rid of you but they need to comply with employment law (which doesn't allow them to make shit up because they want to replace you with someone they can pay much less, or whatever.)

Alicia9999 · 29/10/2019 17:23

12 months into a job I would be asking about opportunities for promotion, trying to understand from my manager what I could be doing to move up. In my current role I'm expected to carve that role out for myself, not wait for one to come up. Is the problem you're just not pro-active enough for the company culture?

Brefugee · 29/10/2019 17:28

do you have KPIs or Targets? have they been properly communicated and progress reports made?
This sounds awful - are they trying to manage you out?

adaline · 29/10/2019 17:31

This sounds awful - are they trying to manage you out?

Why does it sound awful? After eighteen months in a role I would expect my staff to be working to a certain standard and if they weren't meeting that standard I'd want to a) find out why and b) offer help/support if necessary.

Targets and KPI's are totally normal and are something people should be working towards all the time, even if they're not aiming for a promotion.

StealthPolarBear · 29/10/2019 17:43

Alicia9999 what if she doesn't want to be promoted?

I get the issue but I think they're on thin ice. In order to get the tick that she is performing satisfactorily at her own level, she actually needs to demonstrate she's performing at the level above? Seems dodgy to me.

StealthPolarBear · 29/10/2019 17:43

"After eighteen months in a role I would expect my staff to be working to a certain standard and if they weren't meeting that standard I'd want to a) find out why and b) offer help/support if necessary."

Would that standard be the standard for their job, or for the one above?

adaline · 29/10/2019 17:45

@stealthpolarbear if they're working to the top level of their current role, they should be of a level where they can apply for a promotion should one come up.

StealthPolarBear · 29/10/2019 17:48

Ah now where I work to apply for a higher role you pretty much have to prove you're already working at that level most of the time

adaline · 29/10/2019 17:52

I wouldn't expect someone to work above their job level without being paid extra for it.

As an example - we have five tiers in our shop - sales assistant, senior sales assistant, supervisor, deputy manager and manager. Each role has its own pay grade and I wouldn't expect eg. a senior sales assistant to work at a supervisory level without being paid for it.

LolaSmiles · 29/10/2019 17:59

I wouldn't expect someone to work above their job level without being paid extra for it
In your examples though they are about stepping up in terms of accountability and responsibility.

I'd expect someone after 18 months to be working within their current role at a much more competent level than someone 4 months in.

So for example, I'd expect to be hand holding someone new through their first 3-6 months of induction time and being on hand to deal with queries about organisation specifics etc, but I'd expect that to died down by 12 months and by 18 months I'd have expected to see much fewer errors, more initiative, more proactive, not scraping by the minimum barely above water / scraping by the minimum that they think they can get away with.

I could see a situation where someone may think an 18monther isn't meeting career expectations if (for example) they're only doing the bare minimum asked for, not showing initiative, wanting a second opinion on everything, there's frequent mistakes in their work or things need redoing and checking by someone else etcm

Now I'm not saying that is the case with OP (before someone turns up 10 pages in claiming any broader discussion of a topic is somehow mean), but it's worth considering

ThatMuppetShow · 29/10/2019 18:02

I wouldn't expect someone to work above their job level without being paid extra for it.

but I wouldn't keep anyone doing the bare minimum either.

I would expect a lot more from a sales assistant who has been here for 18 months than one who is on their second day.

adaline · 29/10/2019 18:09

I would expect a lot more from a sales assistant who has been here for 18 months than one who is on their second day.

Of course, me too.

So for someone to pass their probationary period they need to be hitting certain targets and benchmarks. Normally this is within three months. However if they're only part-time or have been on holiday for a large period of that, then expectations would be different.

What I'm trying to say is after eighteen months of full-time work in a role I would expect everyone at say, level 2, to be at the same standards. So if three people started at the same time I would expect them to all be working to the same standard in that time.

Brefugee · 29/10/2019 18:14

I think it sounds awful because it sounds as though OP and her boss aren't aligned with expectations.

I always think there are basically 2 types of people at work. People who are happy to work (as long as they do work) and don't mind staying at a relatively junior level (for whatever reason) and people who want to be promoted. Lots of companies don't like the former because they don't think they want to get better at their job. So they want everyone to be hungry for promotion etc

but you have to have a pyramid, you can't all be managers, although you can have different grades of ability etc.

Hecateh · 29/10/2019 18:17

I've just been sacked for not getting up to speed fast enough. 8 weeks into an 18 hour per week (so less the half full time) job.

As I was only in post 2 months I have no come back whatsoever.

ThatMuppetShow · 29/10/2019 18:17

I think you forget a 3rd kind: the ones who do the bare minimum, would never dream of starting 1 minute early, are jumping off their chair the minute the clock reaches 5 and so on and will start a thread on MN if anyone dares emailing them a question whilst they are on sick leave!

Your first type of workers can be very valuable depending on the role.
It's the ones who take the piss who companies need to get rid off.

For obvious reasons, we haven't got anywhere near info about the OP to have a proper picture of what the problem is in her case though.

Nonnymum · 29/10/2019 18:20

Do you have a Union? If so talk to a rep. If not I would urge you to join one. They are there for issues like this.

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