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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

Car seats, am I being too precious?

30 replies

SimonJT · 27/10/2019 09:22

My son is four, he rarely goes in a car seat as we live in London so we use the tube/walk most of the time. When I do drive he is in his car seat in the rear of the car, he is forward facing as his head has started to go over the top of his extended rear facer. He has been forward facing for about three months.

Half term ends today where we are, I have just noticed an email on school comms for a trip on Thursday, it’s free, looking on google maps it’s a 40 minute journey that includes the M25 on a minibus. This means they will be wearing seatbelts, but they will not be in appropriate car seats on a motorway. I know from previous meetings parents cannot drop off their own booster seats to be used.

I absolutely cannot have Thursday off work so I can’t deliver him to/from the school trip.

Am I being unreasonable/too mean of a Dad to say he cannot go on the trip as he won’t be in an adequate car seat?

OP posts:

Confrontayshunme · 27/10/2019 09:28

When our oldest was in nursery/school, we signed a form saying they were okay to take journeys in the minibus. They never had seats that I know of. Pretty sure they are like cabs in that the regular seatbelt is sufficient?

HeyYouWhatToDo · 27/10/2019 09:28

Can you send your own seat?

Our school measures the height of all DC going on trips by car/ mini bus and provides seats...even if that means a yr 6 student is on a booster they won't allow any child to go with them if not in the correct seat.

A local trip I may be give a bit of keyway on sending my DC on a trip... But a motorway without a seat would be a big no from me. But if they can use their own seat then I wouldn't see a problem.

SpookilyBadOooooooh · 27/10/2019 09:30

You are a bit, yes. Travelling on a school coach is much safer than in a car and the seats will be higher backed etc.

They wouldn’t take them If it was inherently unsafe.

Do you not travel by bus in London at all? I get they don’t move as fast, but neither does traffic in the m25🤣it’s not know as the largest carpark for nothing!! Joking aside. The bus is more likely to stop suddenly in London than in the motorway

It’s difficult when they start school & they’re suddenly doing things like this without you, but try not to worry schools have a vested interest in keeping the kids alive!!

You’d be denying him the opportunity to be part of the day out & travel with his friends over something that’s far less risky than travelling in the tube. Or the bus in London.

MRex · 27/10/2019 09:36

With a motorway that'd be a bit much for me. Are you sure they don't have booster seats for every kid anyway as there are loads that go from age 4-12? Is your DS sensible enough that he could use his own booster if not? There are some foldable types that would be light enough for even a 4yo to carry. I'd speak to the school anyway if it were me, 4 is really very young and they're physically very small, so it isn't much to ask that the school make an effort on proper seating for that age group.

CheerioGirl · 27/10/2019 09:58

If it wasn’t on a motorway perhaps I might agree to it. But not on the motorway

Original poster

SimonJT · 27/10/2019 10:25

Thank you for your replies.

@HeyYouWhatToDo No, when he started we had to sign to say we knew car seats/boosters wouldn’t be used on the school minibus and we were told at our first into evening that we were not allowed to supply boosters etc as staff would need to be trained to install the specific type of booster, seat etc.

@SpookilyBadOooooooh Seats on minibuses aren’t higher backed than a cars, are you thinking of a proper coach? We don’t get the bus as it’s crap where we live and even more crowded than the tube.

I’m fairly certain his poor teacher doesn’t have a vested interest in keeping him alive, she’ll need professional help by xmas!

@MRex No they don’t have any, which is understandable when you think about school budgets and a fairly short life a car seat has. He’s not very sensible at all, and we aren’t allowed to send seats etc as staff would need to be trained in specific seats, we know it really means it’s inconvenient to fit them all, but to be honest, I would feel the same if I was unfortunate enough to take out a class of four year olds.

OP posts:

Ineedanamechange79 · 27/10/2019 10:32

Erf seats aren't normally outgrown till top of headrest is at eye level. Check the manual but they are different to infant carriers which are outgrown as soon as head is over the top.

Ineedanamechange79 · 27/10/2019 10:34

I don't think I would allow travel on the coach on a motorway without a car seat either.

coconutcurls · 27/10/2019 10:43

Minibuses usually have adjustable seatbelts which mean they fit any size of child safely and securely. I worked in a nursery that took children out on trips and picked up school-age children from school. Perfectly safe.

stucknoue · 27/10/2019 11:04

The school minibus may have seatbelts designed to fit youngsters. They also may be avoiding the motorway. Public buses here go on 70mph dual carriageways and don't have seatbelts!

WidowTwonky · 27/10/2019 11:06

YANBu. I wouldn’t like it either

Original poster

SimonJT · 27/10/2019 12:01

@coconutcurls Really? I’m going into school Tuesday evening so I’ll call ahead so I can have a look.

@Ineedanamechange79 He is already beyond that, he’s 114cm tall.

OP posts:

modgepodge · 27/10/2019 12:35

Our school minibus has adjustable seat belts, legally I believe it is fine for children to be in them without a booster. At least I assume it is as that’s what we do!!! And staff have had relevant training and the person In charge of the bus is hot on safety checks and so on.

Whether or not it’s safe or not, i don’t know. Legally I think you can take a newborn in a taxi without a car seat. Does that make it safe?

Quartz2208 · 27/10/2019 12:42

Yes re adjustable seat belts and also even though googlemaps has the M25 chances are they will if possible try to avoid it

And of course the teacher/school have a vested interest why would that mean she would need professional help

JacquesHammer · 27/10/2019 12:42

School will have done a thorough risk assessment for the trip including safe travel.

Chewysmum · 27/10/2019 12:53

I know from a legal standpoint in the UK that buses are exempt from car seat laws and therefore are made to be safer for little ones. On the other hand, 4 is young. In the summer I took my boy on short trips on a minibus without a car seat but he sat on my knee (he was about 15 months at the time although bigger than most 2.5yr Olds). I'm really not sure if I'd let him go on a bus at 4 alone without a seat. Unlike others though, I think the motorway part of your issue should be irrelevant, much more accidents happen in towns and cities than on motorways anyway.
I don't think anyone can make this decision for you, but it'd be such a great shame if all his classmates get to go and your son misses it. Is there nobody that can take him at all? I presume not or you probably wouldn't have asked the question. Sorry to not be more help, it's a hard question but I think I would say for me I would allow him to go, but like I said, nobody else can make your decision

Bsmirched · 27/10/2019 13:05

I'm not sure what people are referring to with adjustable seatbelts - can the height of the shoulder strap be significantly lowered so it isn't across their necks? We have booster seats in our school minibus for the little ones. I don't think you're being precious at all and I've had arguments before now with our deputy head about our infants travelling on coaches with adult seatbelts which lie right over their throats.

coconutcurls · 27/10/2019 13:31

@Bsmirched yes, the seatbelts have a clip that sits on the child's shoulder so that it's in the right place.

Mamapop1 · 27/10/2019 14:24

You wouldn't be allowed to supply a high backed booster that needs fitting as it depends on the vehicle for if it fits properly. You should be able to provide a booster cushion if you really wanted to as these don't need installation and can be used in any vehicle/seatbelt type.

My DD had a trip where we got to choose if we wanted to send booster cushions and some were provided for those that didn't have the cushion only the high backed at home. They were hiring a coach so didn't know seat belt type.

DS school trip we were allowed to send high backed seats as they were going in the school mini bus so had time to fit and knew they had 3 point seltbelts.

FairyBatman · 27/10/2019 14:28

Many minibuses don’t have isofix points and most can’t accommodate seats with a top teather, so it’s not just a question of teachers fitting them, the seat may not physically fit.

usarae · 28/10/2019 17:43

When I accompanied my son's class as a helper on a school trip the bus had adjustable seatbelts. There was a little clip that you used to adjust it to their shoulder height so it wasn't across their neck. We went round and sorted all the children's belts before we headed off. Maybe you could ask the school about the seatbelts on the minibus.

Starlet79 · 28/10/2019 17:47

I wonder this too. Our children’s school own two mini buses that they use for trips. I have seen car seats been put into these but sometimes if not all children can get on the minibus teachers will drive the children with NO car seats.

I get your concern. As parents we would get into trouble for not having a 4 year old in a car seat on the motorway. Children are so much safer in car seats. Maybe address your concerns to the school. If you haven’t already.

Booster cushions would probably be safer than nothing at all in their case.

saying that every Friday half the school gets on a coach to go swimming 20 minutes away and no one bats an eye lid then 😳

modgepodge · 28/10/2019 18:40

The teachers are mad if they are driving 4 year olds with no car seats. They would also get in to trouble if found out.

JacquesHammer · 28/10/2019 18:45

The teachers are mad if they are driving 4 year olds with no car seats. They would also get in to trouble if found out

Why would they be in trouble? There’s no legal requirement for car seat use in a minibus.

DCOkeford · 28/10/2019 19:19

Motorways are by some margin the safest road to travel on (20% of traffic, but 6% of fatalities)

It is faulty reasoning to say that it it the motorway segment of the journey that is causing you concern.

NSL roads are far more dangerous (40% of traffic, but over 60% of fatalities)

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