To ask your experience of a keto diet?

[Atticusblame]

Just started this today. It's basically a very low carb diet. I have low carbed before, but not quite to the keto extreme.

Has anyone found it works well for them? And how long is it until results show? And what alcohol can I drink on it?

*carbing

Keto is low carbing.

I'm vegetarian so i don't think it would work for me.

I have just about halved my carb intake, and lost nearly 2 stone in four months. Pretty pleased with thst and looking and feeling much more like my old self. I'm a shortarse so it makes a big difference. I know it's shallow but i have also noticed people are being nicer to me. Then again that might just be because i'm looking happier.

@Alsohuman there's a difference between a generally low carb diet and keto's extreme of counting carbs up to 20g.

Also OP, it's really important to get your electrolytes right as you will consume so much water.

You don't need to keep it under twenty, it's different for everyone. 20-50 is ideal and you count net carbs, ie carbs minus fibre. That's a shit load when you count it in veg etc.

I genuinely think in many instances people just don't really know what they are doing or understand the composition of their food. It's not something you can rush into if you don't understand it or can't be arsed Reading up on it even briefly.

But quite frankly eating plenty of green veg, salad, mushrooms, etc, with meats, fish, seafood, cheese, eggs, yoghurt, nuts etc is a very healthy diet indeed.

No one "needs" to eat bread, rice, potatoes, crisps and chocolate to be healthy, nor should anyone be thinking it's extreme not to be scoffing them.

I found restricting carbs to around 20g a day incredibly easy and not in the least restrictive. Horses for courses, I guess.

@Bluntness100 I did a ton of reading but the keto world is sadly filled with bad science which is unhelpful for many people and can lead you up some very dodgy paths. I also found that some keto people are very evangelical as it worked for them so they won't contemplate it not working for everyone. I don't need that in my life!

The keto approach I followed was 20g of carbs a day. I didn't not enjoy the food but it didn't give me the results I was after and was unsustainable on a tight family budget.

Worked wonders for me. I think I had problems with insulin and was probably on my way to diabetes. I tracked before and after, on keto my calories went up by about 300kcal a day initially but I lost 2 stone in 3 months. It then slowed so I watched calories more which did nothing at all, now I do intermittent fasting along with keto which is keeping things moving.

The kcal in kcal out thing is a bit simplistic and inaccurate. If you ate 1000kcal of biscuits a day or 1000kcal of salmon there would be a very different outcome. We all know that. I'm walking anecdotal proof of that but Jason Fung has written a lot on it:

www.dietdoctor.com/obesity-solving-two-compartment-problem

idmprogram.com/the-failure-of-the-calorie-theory-of-obesity/

If you have issues with insulin it should be very effective.

Expensive. Highly restrictive. Huge consequences to falling off the wagon.

Does it have to be expensive? I was thinking that by sticking with eggs, tinned sardines, vegetables, chicken thighs, belly pork etc., so the sort of cheap cuts of meats/fish or omelettes with vegetables wouldn't be too expensive.

It’s not expensive. You eat the fatty cuts of meat and these are generally cheaper than the leaner cuts

Spot on @Atticusblame, my cheese bill went up but that’s because I’m addicted to the stuff!

My DH stays on it for about 8 weeks then has a week break, it normally takes him 2 days to get back into ketosis.

He eats eggs (omelettes mainly), belly pork, tuna, chicken thighs, burgers, cheese

It made me realise what actually contained sugar and how much (as he doesn't eat anything with hidden sugars in)

It is quite restrictive but he loves meat so finds it reasonably easy, and he looses quite quickly on it, he drinks vodka and Pepsi max when he's on it.

I personally hate diets like this as its unhealthy in other ways rather than being unhealthy for being overweight, but his choice .

It is expensive if you have a family to feed and usually add veg and carbs to meals to stretch them further. If you replace toast or cereal for breakfast with bacon and eggs it's going to cost more, wherever you source it from. Protein costs more, that's hardly difficult to calculate. And trust me, I was using chicken thighs, eggs and high fat mince to cut costs where I could.

Like I said, if it works for you great. It didn't work for me, not because I was 'doing it wrong', in fact I threw myself into it wholeheartedly, but because it was restrictive, expensive and didn't personally give me results.

As I previously said, many people for whom it works become evangelical about it to the point that they shout down any other WOE. I gave it a go, I speak from experience. The OP asked for views, unless they only wanted keto fans to reply!

On cholesterol. My nurse practitioner cousin says that she likes the idea of how I do it, but doesn't always like how her patients do...

I exercise, which is good for bad cholesterol

I don't eat almost any processed food or fake food

I always, every meal, have vegetables

She sees people eating shit, processed fake crap, not exercising and eating almost no vegetables. They lose weight but at what cost.

I really don't see a piece of protein, with fat and a pile of veg as extreme or restricted. Plus I drink a lot less alcohol and a lot more water!

Oh and my shopping bill has increased a lot. But it doesn't have to be as expensive as I make it!

Me and DH are following the dietdoctor two week intro. It’s brilliant we’ve not been hungry, loads of vegetables. We’re both really enjoying it and he’s not a diet or healthy eating type

Only draw back is that it’s expensive but in time as we grow more knowledgeable I think we’ll be able to do it on a budget more effectively

Oh and with the diet doctor plan you cook once a day, a double portion and have the other half for lunch the next day. I think it’s this that’s making it so great for us. DH works shifts, I work long, full time hours and used to always have lunch from work which was expensive abs unhealthy. No time to prepare lunch in the morning before work with kids / school etc. so I’m loving having lunch sorted and not having to have a shit sandwich and crisps everyday

@atticusblame you asked about water...

On a higher carb diet the energy is stored in our muscles and liver as glycogen (and then when the glycogen stores are full, the energy is laid down as fat). Then when we exercise, or get hungry, the glycogen stores release glucose into the blood stream.

Glycogen storage is also linked with water retention - biochemically every gram of glycogen is associated with 3g water.

At the start of a low carb diet the glycogen stores are being depleted and not refilled, so you loose the associated water (hence some of the peeing we experience). You therefore lose some weight.

On a calorie restricted diet the same would happen BUT in that case as soon as you ate, glycogen would be created and the associated water would be retained. (that's why people can crash diet, lose a few pounds to get into a special dress, then put it all back on the next morning).

With a low carb lifestyle once the glycogen has been used up our bodies turn to fat for energy and start using that up (hurrah!) That is what we are aiming for - the ongoing use of fat (eaten fat and body fat) as our principal source of energy.

So losing a lot of weight fast in the initial stages might be due to water loss but it's an important step on the way to longer term fat loss. And you'll only regain that lost 'water weight' if you abandon this way of eating and return to carbs.

You may have lost water from your body but rest assured that unless you are dehydrated, the water you are losing is from its biochemical association with glycogen, and drinking more water will not replace that (unless you're eating carb and refuelling your glycogen stores).

In addition, the biochemical process in the liver that converts fat requires lots of water to make it happen efficiently, so keep on keeping on with the water consumption.

My cholesterol levels, fasting glucose and triglycerides all went down significantly after 18m of keto. Triglycerides halved, glucose went from prediabetic to well within normal range, and HDL went up, LDL down a little, improving my cholesterol ratio.
It is a bit more expensive but worth it for my health. Pretty sure if there was a supplement that got the blood results keto gave me plenty of people would spend on it.
And if you throw in intermittent fasting your food bills drop anyway.... 😜

Great for weight loss but fucked me up and I ended up having gallbladder out. Wouldn't go near an extreme diet again. Slow n steady, healthy lifestyle is the only true way.

There are many ways to do keto / low carb. As a pp said you can low carb on a diet of lard. But the kind of food I eat in healthy, often plant based, and in no-way extreme. For me this IS a steady, healthy lifestyle.

its unhealthy in other ways rather than being unhealthy for being overweight, but his choice

Why do you think it’s unhealthy?

Re low-carb evangelists (of which I am one). I totally accept that there are many different approaches to food and health and we each have to find something that fits our body, metabolism, genetic pre-dispositions, lifestyle and budget.

However there are lots of people who haven't read much about low carb, who aren't following any proper nutritional advice, who don't understand how it works, who constantly 'cheat'. And I think the 'evangelists' often just want them to have the best possible shot at it, and not to make mistakes.

Last year I took part in the ration challenge for refugee week - essentially for a week you live on the same food rations as someone in a camp in the Lebanon. It is the exact opposite of what I normally eat - very low on veg, only one chicken thigh for the whole week, lots of rice, pulses, chickpeas, lentil, beans, flour. It is inexpensive, you can survive, but it was boring and without the herbs and spices that Syrians are used to it was bland and tasteless.

I know from that experience that I can eat the 'ration diet' and stay the same weight, keep my metabolic markers steady. I know from the low-carb (plenty of veg) diet I normally eat that it works for me. What I can't do is lots of carbs and lots of fat. Sadly for many that's the typical Western diet and we know that that is killing us.

I have lots of meals without meat too. All my food today and tomorrow is vegetarian (in fact most meals were vegan). Jamie Oliver's mushroom curry is a brilliant recipe. I had it with cauliflower rice, the rest of the family had it with normal rice.

I personally hate diets like this as its unhealthy in other ways rather than being unhealthy for being overweight, but his choice. A couple of people on this thread have mentioned that it's made them ill. I'm 31 and in good health, touch wood, and don't want to take any risks really. Has it made your DH less healthy?

Im interested in everyone's views, LittleAndOften. A few more people have mentioned the expense so perhaps I will find my bills rising.

venusandmars, that's really interesting. Thank you for taking the time. I was worried that drinking a lot of water would undo the losing of the water weight, so that's great that it isn't how it works. Fingers crossed I will get some results from it!

I am 2 weeks into Keto!
I'm hardly ever hungry now and I've lost 9 pounds. I like it and find it easy. DH has lost 3 stone on Keto.
Not being very hungry is a revelation!
I'm eating a good variety of foods as it is easy to get bored.