To think that teen DS' lying is out of control & need help to address it

[EdinaMonsoon]

DS15 is a gentle and happy boy. He has a really sweet nature and is, in all other respects, a great teen.

HOWEVER, he has always had a tendency to tell lies since he was probably around 4 years of age. He makes silly, inconsequential stuff up about school or friends. He tells lies about whether he's done his homework, completed chores, phone usage etc etc. You name it: he can lie about it. It is absolutely relentless and I am exhausted by it.

We have encouraged him to be truthful by, for example, giving lesser consequences where he is honest about something he has/hasn't done. We're not a shouty family, try to be as fair as possible with consequences & I honestly don't think he is scared to tell the truth; rather, he wilfully won't.

We have tried all the usual tactics of talking about it (the issue he's lied about and the lying itself), removing devices, grounding etc. Nothing seems to work.

I am now at the end of my tether, as is DH. We are clueless about how to tackle this now. He's of an age where naturally they want more independence and freedom but not even the risk of losing that will stop him from lying. I worry that he is going to get himself into more serious trouble at some point as a result of it or end up hurting future partners & friends if he cannot be truthful.

We have an older DS and although there have been the usual teen dramas with him, we never had this problem with him.

AIBU to think this level of lying isn't normal & isn't something he is likely to "grow out of"? And any advice on how we begin to tackle it?

Watching with interest, my son is younger but lies constantly. Recently diagnosed with ADHD, the home school link worker said she felt he wasnt wilfully lying per se, he believes he's telling the truth 🤷‍♀️ not sure i believe that either but its a perspective!

ZigZagIntoTheBlue that's quite an unusual take on it by the home school link worker. Have they offered any possible methods to handle it?

No advice but yes I'd be asking for help, cahms? Is he not bothered that nobody trusts him? Does he lie to everyone?

Compulsive lying can be a symptom of a personality disorder. If I were you, I would have him assessed.

My youngest has this tendency. It used to be worse.

My tactic, was when she was caught in a lie, to make a very big deal of refusing to take her at her word, for quite some time afterwards. I made it clear that she had damaged our ability to trust her, and had to earn our trust back.

She hated that. She found it humiliating and limiting, because it meant I wouldn't allow her to take food into her room for example, because she lied about bringing leftovers out and they had moulded into the carpet, wouldn't let her go with her friends after school because she had lied about where they were going to. I have to say I didn't enjoy this much either!

She is now a lot better about lying. It was a longterm and last ditch, approach.

mankyfourthtoe When he's called out on it, he becomes quite withdrawn: won't make eye contact and seems sad rather than defensive. He lies to me & my husband. I don't know if he lies to his friends or not & I'm not sure we could even have an honest discussion about it!

Aquamarine The personality disorder issue had crossed my mind too. I agree that we need to seek help but not sure who to approach. Whether we go to CAMHS (although our local service not great if experience with eldest DS anything to go by) or perhaps with a clinical psychologist who specialises in adolescent/teen mental health? In which case, going via GP seems the route to take but also feels an odd thing to go to a GP about!

mbosnz Thank you for sharing that & I'm glad you've had some success with the approach with your DD. I have tried a similar approach with DS too but it honestly doesn't seem to work long term. He's initially sad as we have an otherwise good relationship - sharing a sense of humour and quite a few interests. But then once the trust is building, he goes back to lying again.

I would have him assessed privately. Going through the NHS will take forever and they will most likely just fob him off, anyway.

I have some experience in this too op. My 14yo will even carry on the lie after he has been caught sometimes, insisting he is right and I am wrong! He acts all offended, and tries to turn it back on me to make me feel bad, saying that I never believe him etc. its like a reverse tactic.
The lies are never big stuff, it’s usually elaborate tales of things he says have happened that I know aren’t true. Now, quite often when he is telling me something I know isn’t true I just laugh and tell him not to be ridiculous. If he continues to insist I just walk away saying, yeah yeah, whatever! He hates this!
Sorry I have no words of wisdom really but I bet this is more common than we think with teens.

Have you asked him why he lies when he's caught out in it? Does he know? Does it feel like a compulsion?

My eldest daughter is a compulsive liar and has caused SO much grief over her 21 years that's unreal. She has been diagnosed with Emotionally Unstable Personality Disorder. Oddly it seems to stem from chronic low self esteem , none of my other children show anything similar at all but she is my oldest and I must have made some mistakes raising her. Her bio dad was violent towards me and got arrested and jailed when she was 1 1/2 to 2. The psychiatrist thinks she has trauma from that. It breaks my heart. I love her but she treated me so horrifically that she moved out at 13 with her dad. The last ten years our time has mostly been taken up with her dramas- until I have to remind us all to step back as we can't change her behaviour, only how we react to it.

She is in a relatively stable relationship and they are about to get their own place. She also has a job at the moment but doesn't tend to keep them past week 4 as people cotton onto her drama and porkies. She struggles with routine too. Personality disorders can be treated with vertically Indepth therapy so very worth getting it looked into

@PoptartPoptart it's exhausting, isn't it?! I do exactly as as you do when it's clearly some inconsequential nonsense he's spouting. It's actually quite cathartic! But it distresses me when he lies about more serious issues and on those I really don't know how to react any more.

@ShawshanksRedemption I think it's a mixture of compulsion & some concern about possible consequences (ie he will lie because he thinks it will prevent him being told off). I've been chatting with him this afternoon and he said that he's aware that what he is doing is wrong (eg being on his phone until the early hours or downloading and using an app we have refused to let him have) but that he simply wants to do what he wants to do, when he wants to do it. It's not that he doesn't care about the consequences but that he seems to be lacking in the required self-discipline to stop himself. I've tried explaining that the natural path for that kind of thinking is that he will make future decisions based on his likelihood to get caught rather than on what's right or wrong. He completely understood but says he just can't help himself.

@MyRaGaiaStarFishPieA I'm sorry to hear that your relationship with your DD has been so difficult. As you say, we can only control our response - not compel them to be truthful - but it's bloody exhausting all the same. And it's hard to stay calm at times - it can almost feel like gaslighting. It literally makes my head feel like it will explode. But I have to try and stay calm because I worry that my losing my temper will make him lie even more. Thank you for your words of advice. I'm feeling less like I'm making a fuss over nothing and more like I do need to seek help for him.

@EdinaMonsoon We all lie from time to time (even if it's to a friend to spare feelings - the white lie) and we make choices to do so. It's good your DS is able to see that he does sometimes have a choice where he is weighing up the risks involved when he goes against your wishes. I think that's healthy. The compulsive bit, not so much.

I would keep a diary noting down what he is lying about, talk it through and then see your GP. If he's not weighing up risks and feels compelled to lie when the risk is great, then that's not healthy decision making and he'll need support. It may just be developmental, but checking with the GP and giving examples (and how often he's lying too) would be beneficial.

I have no idea what vertically Indepth therapy is.... I meant to say intensive pyscotherapy🤷🏼‍♀️

Good luck navigating the nhs CSMHS team. If you CAN afford private then I urge you to do so as otherwise it's 2-3 years of delays, misery and changing DRs

This article is very informative. Especially numbers 3 and 4. Again, I would be getting help for him before he winds up in very serious trouble.

www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/your-home-is-not-democracy/201306/is-my-child-sociopath

I'd be more worried about your update.
So he wants to do what he wants and lie to cover it up.
I really do think he needs to talk to someone as that sounds like it could lead to crime.