To think a 100 mile range is not a lot?

[jennymanara]

Where I live we are being encouraged to buy electric cars through billboard adverts. These say things like electric cars can travel 100 miles before needing to be charged and that the average charging time is half an hour.

That sounds fine if all you want is a run around for a city or town to go to the supermarket and work, but pretty impractical for a lot if people. Especially given how few charging places there are. It would in reality mean that I could never drive more than 100 miles before going nack home to charge up the car.

^ It would make more sense if the service stations had a battery bank where you could just pull out your empty one from the car and swap it for a fully charged and you would be able to drive away in minutes like we can now.
I totally agree. I don't know why they don't adopt this model.^

Standardisation, need for infrastructure to support it, design considerations. I assume batteries are positioned so as to be shielded from impact, given the spectacular things that happen if you physically maltreat a lithium ion battery!

Photo of the battery (a whole load of small cells, of course) in a leaf in this:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electricvehiclee_battery

It would be fine for us so long as we keep a proper car to tow and do long distances.

That said petrol is much cheaper than depreciation on a new electric car, so until the suns change I won’t be going electric.

I won't be getting an electric car until there is no other option. They are far too expensive, the range isn't good enough and I don't have off road parking so charging would be a pain in the arse.

Lamppost charging could work, it would still leave a trailing wire across the pavement though, who would get sued if someone fell? Also, could a passer by unplug it?

We have friends with an electric car. It's great. They travel up and down the country in it and they live in a remote spot on a farm. You'd be surprised how many charging points there are, and wherever you go, there's usually a plug socket, so they r not as hard to charge as you might think.

I'm converted, just can't afford one!

when I’m not ferrying dcs, I cycle rather than drive.

I can cycle 10 miles easily which covers work, closest train station, town etc. Councils are getting better at providing bike lockers & cycleways but need to do more. That’s more useful to me than an expensive & limited range car.

I'm seriously considering a second-hand electric car as my next car. I live in a smallish town in a rural area where a car is necessary but the great majority of my trips are pretty short - nipping to the mainline station to commute to work once a week (10 miles each way), going to the nearest big city (20 miles each way), going to see my sister (15 miles each way). I'd be able to charge at home, as I live in a cul de sac with a narrow lane separating my house from my parking space. For the occasional longer trips I'd either sign up to my local car club which has a hybrid, or I'd plan routes with a little more care. What is currently stopping me is the initial cost, as I'd be looking to pay a couple of £1000 more than I normally would for a second hand car - but I think some of that cost would be recouped through lower fuel bills and so on. I also want to check what the position is with things like repairs, servicing and MOT - whether regular garages can do these or if it has to be done by specialists.

With kids you will easily be stopping every 2-3 hours for the best part of 30 minutes- at least from being parked up and plugged in - just walking to the loo, getting everyone sorted and back to the car and strapped in would realistically take most of that time! Add in a drink or snack, or just make it less of a military operation and that's the charging time covered!

We definitely need 2 cars. DH works out of his and we have hopeless public transport- nearest train station 20 minutes drive or 1hr 10 bus...

I don't know why they don't adopt this model.
Standardisation, need for infrastructure to support it, design considerations...

So many things are standarised: plug sockets, the size of bricks, credit cards, etc etc times a billion. They could standardise if they wanted to but they all want to be the winner in the competitive market, so they won't
Infrastructure? It's no different to the infrastructure problems with the existing design of EV (as mentioned several times on this thread already). You are discounting the cost of motorists' wasted time.
Design considerations? Design it better!

So many parts of a car are instantly replaceable - current batteries, tyres, headlamps - they should have continued with that philosophy.

Until I know whether current designs are betamax or VHS then I'm keeping out of it. Cars are too expensive to gamble over.

Living in Birmingham, 100 miles would actually cover 90% of my driving (by mileage). But charging would be an issue - there's no charging at work, and at home it would be a lot of costly work to get a driveway put in since the front garden's about 2 feet higher than the street.

(Plus, as someone who doesn't have a drive, I sort of resent the people who do. Every time someone on my street gets their garden turned into a driveway, they're taking away an on-road parking space that was for everyone to use, and creating a space for only them.)

The other issue is the 10% of my driving it wouldn't cover. The holidays and visits to family, with elderly relations too infirm for public transport. We're not a two-car household. I'd have to deal with hire cars for that which is a considerable extra cost and hassle.

So I think pure EVs are a non-starter for me now.

Yes, senua, but all those things take time as well as effort to sort out. The technologies are simply too immature at this point, I think.

For which reasons, you're right about vhs/Betamax ... I'd be inclined to keep out of it till the DVD at least though!

It's the reason I didn't buy an electric car as once a year we need to do a long journey for our summer holiday. There's apparently a new UK car maker called Austin with plans for a much longer battery life

there's loads of charging points once you start looking out for them.

plus most people aren't doing journeys of more than 30-40 miles at a time.

YOu charge overnight at home, drive 25 miles to work, charge whilst at work, drive home via tesco, charge at Tesco, go home...

the only problem comes is when you do want to drive 200 miles, which would be rare, presumably, and you just plan for it. You would have a break anyway at around 100 miles I'd hope, so you you just go to the services, plug into the fast charge for 20-30 minutes, and head onwards. you might be adding an extra (say) 20 minutes over all, but so what?

If you drive 150 000 miles a year, I would say you are in MUCH more of a minority / niche group than those of us that can see the value in using an electric car. I understand the "average" mileage is something like 12 000 miles a year. Like a pp, we have 2 cars in this family. We have a people carrier which whoever is going on a longer journey / carrying luggage / carrying a lt of people takes and then the 'little car' which rarely travels more than 30 miles at a time - mostly journeys under 6 or 7 miles, around our City. I i think that is a pretty common thing in families.

I completely agree that we, as a whole nation should be making it esier to use public transport - be that through improving efficiency, reducing cost or better still a combination of both - but that is nothing to do with whether it is worth a company marketing their product.

Just because it doesn't suit you / your lifestyle, doesn't mean there isn't a big market of people that might be able to use it.

So yes, YABU

I'd be inclined to keep out of it till the DVD at least though!

The problem with the electric car debate is:

• it is focused on 'environmentally friendly at point of use' - undoubtedly a good thing, but ignores the huge issues we have currently with sourcing the 'ingredients' needed for batteries - the desecration of the world to get rare earth metals etc.

• it ignores how people live - usable in a city - but shouldn't public transport be the answer there? - not so usable rurally, where there is more need for personal transport

• it ignores how people work - away from where they live = travel - restructuring how people work and live would be the biggest impact on car use you could imagine

• it ignores how people buy goods (huge amount of transportation of goods internationally)

• it ignores where the biggest environmental impact of cars comes from (manufacturing and end of life recycling) - both these parts are out of the public eye, yet if the average car owner held onto their cars longer we would instantly be far more environmentally friendly - even though newer cars have more efficient engines

• it focuses on political success in being able to make environmental claims - without having to set the context or explain the bigger picture...

ultimately, the most environmentally friendly approach is to hold onto your current car longer - fix it rather than scrapping it or trading it in, and then look to minimise usage - can public transport be used / can you work from home / can you change your timetable so that children walk to school / etc.

Also, look more carefully at travel for goods you buy - food miles, but also clothing / white goods / etc. - do you repair the hole in a jumper or buy a new one - how many clothes do you need?! Do you need a new phone this year - or could you keep it another year - the longer you keep it, the more environmentally friendly it becomes

the only people who will suffer with be shareholders for Amazon / Apple / etc. ;)

the reality is that buying a new electric car - with all the impact of its manufacture, but not changing the rest is not the answer - it allows you to pretend that you are environmentally friendly while remaining as much a part of the issue as everyone else - yes, less fumes at point of use, but that is only one small part of the argument

YOu charge overnight at home, drive 25 miles to work, charge whilst at work, drive home via tesco, charge at Tesco, go home...

Lots of people like me can't charge at work. I can charge at Sainsbury's, but not ALDi. I live in a City and the charging points would be either a cable through my letter box, or charging points most of which are in paid car parks next to shopping centres.
My employer does have electric charging points, but only for the employer's own vehicles. None of staff to actually use.

And no, I would not have a 30 minute break every 100 miles of driving on long journeys. I doubt anyone without babies or toddlers does. On the motorway a 100 miles can take 1.5 hours to drive. We have teenagers who as long as they have phones would sit all day in the back of the car. So yes toilets stops, and a proper stop for lunch or tea. But not 30 mins every 100 miles.

And professional drivers do not have to have a 30 minute break every 100 miles so it is rubbish to suggest this is a necessity.

Where do ppl think electricity comes from? And how is it economical or ecological to ditch a car which still has life for a new one?

Where do ppl think electricity comes from? *
A fair proportion is from renewables now. A significant problem with solar and wind power is storage - it's possible that electric cars could actually be part of the solution (cheap charging when there's a lot of renewables power available).

And of course the other major issue is air quality in cities. Electricity mostly is generated outside them, with better emissions control.

*And how is it economical or ecological to ditch a car which still has life for a new one?

It usually isn't. Though, of course, most people sell those cars so they get some more use.

The small electric cars are fine if you live in a city.

Electric pickup trucks with a 300 mile range are being advertised to order here. However fully loaded the range drops to less than 1/2 that.

Where do ppl think electricity comes from?

It's not so much where it comes from, but more how you squeeze enough electricity needed to do your "100 miles" (as per thread title) into your car in enough time to make an electric car even vaguely as practical as a hydrocarbon car. Because 2-hour charge times might be OK overnight, but are going to need a lot of surface area of you're planning on service-station charging at that rate.

Of course you could up the power transfer - from the c. 50kW to 500kW and reduce the charging time to 12 minutes. (If we assume the loss profiles are linear). But you'd need a crane to lift that cable (which would be a thief magnet as it would be made of copper). But in a country that's struggling to keep the lights on at the moment, and where any form of infrastructure investment may as well be a request to start a puppy farm, it's not going to be top priority.

Swappable batteries - as suggested upthread - are the most practical and sensible solutions. And the fact no one is working on them, and no government has mandated them tells me all I need to know about the current generation (all puns intended ) of electric cars, and why they are destined to be the laserdisc of the roads.

OP it’s fine that you don’t want an electric car. They aren’t for everyone at the moment, but they do suit some people hence the adverts. In your case you are clearly right to wait til the range/infrastructure is better. It’s no big deal. And it’s good to highlight how they are not yet practical/affordable for all.

Everyone having an EV may not be the environmental answer long term. EV car sharing will probably become more of a Thing in future. And capped travel rates across public transport, like in London, including EV car hire for part of your journey.

Realistically a car with a 100 mile range is most likely to be used as a station car or for school runs - probably as a second car. The type with a 250-300 mile range like the Teslas are more practical as a sole family car.

We are planning on either a hybrid or full electric as our next car. Most of our journeys are short local runs. We have some family and friends we visit fairly regularly who are 50-100 miles each way which would be doable with the longer range electric cars. It's rare we do anything beyond that.

Lots of issues here.

Firstly, EVs are great. I would not promote hybrids because EVs are way better. Unless you go for a more expensive plug-in hybrid, there is no point to them.

We had a 24kw leaf, which is one of the older models. It would do 80-90 on a charge or about 60 per charge on the motorway. I would not have that car if you wanted a lot of commuting. However, 80-90 miles more than covers our usual use and we charge at home. If we wanted to go on a long trip to visit family, which is rare, then we would hire a car as the cost saving between petrol/diesel and home charging saved a lot of money and more than covered hire cost.

My SIL does a lot of motorway miles, so no I would not recommend one of the older cars to her. The newer cars do many more miles and 200-300+ miles in the newer EVs is not uncommon. Most people would not generally do that number of miles in a trip and if you are then you stop and charge. Most people have to stop and fill up when driving.

Battery technology moves on. For example, Tesla have said their new batteries they are developing can achieve up to 1 million miles. For old Tesla cars, Tesla recycle the batteries into powerwalls for home solar panels, so they get reused. There are also new batteries being developed - one that would be more of a fuel cell that you swap out and which is fully recyclable and others involving glass.

The mileage will increase over time as will charging times. Yes you are looking at a good 30 minutes to rapid charge an electric car (depending on your battery and the power of the charger) and they are working on decreasing that. Home charging is great if you have the space for it and they are developing charging points on kerbside and also charging from street lamps for those who have to park on-street.

There are lots of new EVs to hit the market, which will be out next year as car manufacturers have to release EVs to balance their emissions. They will make a big difference (VW ID3 will be one of the big players). On top of that the charging network is still expanding - petrol stations are planning to put charging points in and some of the big European charging network companies are planning to open charging stations here. Over the next 5 years there will be fantastic improvements in the market.

We can do about 460 miles in one full tank of petrol.