TA tearing up children’s work in class

[Swimminguphill]

My DC is 8, in year 4. Their teacher is regularly absent from class as they are a subject specialist and teach other classes too. When they are absent the class is led by a TA. This TA is ‘very shouty’ and has recently torn up a child’s work in front of the class saying that ‘it is a disgrace’ etc. This was in art class.

I knew this TA had form for this and was nervous at the beginning of the year. Other parents have complained about the work being torn up/public humiliation before and nothing has happened.

The parent of the child in question has complained to the class teacher and bern told the TA doesn’t recall the incident. In my mind the teacher is fully aware of the issue but doesn’t want to rock the boat because this would make their life more difficult in teaching their favourite subject.

My question is - what should I do? I consider this to be public humiliation, physical intimidation (angrily/publicly tearing up their work) and emotional abuse. Although my child isn’t directly affected I think this kind of thing creates a climate of fear. In addition my child’s poor presentation was brought up by the teacher in parents evening and so I consider them to be at risk of this happening to them.

Would I be unreasonable to complain on these grounds? Am I overreacting? What would you do?

@Chickenkatsu
Seems to me this one for Ofsted.
Take no prisoners & show no pity.

@Swimminguphill Report it to the head, and say you are very unhappy with this behaviour. See if you can get a few others on board with you. Safety (and power) in numbers!

The TA sounds unhinged to me. I think she needs investigating.

No way in HELL should she be doing this.

The parents of the child in question have complained. What new are you bringing to the table?

Surely that's fairly obvious. The TA is trying to make out that this incident didn't happen. If OP and other parents confirm that their children witnessed the incident, that particular tactic won't be available to her.

I do agree you need to raise very seriously the question of why the class is regularly being taught by someone unqualified.

"the TA doesn’t recall the incident." reads as either the TA doesn't wish to admit it or the TA does things like this a lot and can't remember if she did it to that particular child.

I'm a TA who covers classes, I have made children re-do work that isn't up to standard but ripping the work out is stupid, not only because it upsets the child but also because that's your evidence that they have improved, you need that. I would talk to the class teacher and tell them you are concerned.

I assume she is qualified to be a TA - who isn't? You would be surprised, you don't actually have to be qualified to work as a TA.

I think you should complain, even if it wasn't your child's work your child will e affected by seeing it happen. I isn't think you should coordinate a complaint. Just complain to he Head teacher about the TA and the effect you think their behaviour is having on your child. Hopefully others will complain as well.

I have vivid memories of this happening to me - year 2. I felt so sick.

I retrieved the bits from the bin, hid them in my bag and took them home. It somehow felt safer/less humiliating.

TAs are allowed to teach classes, and do so regularly - no point in complaining over that one. Sadly it's one of the changes that has been made in recent years. As the child's parents have complained, how do you know about the TA's response? Are you friends with/talking to the parents?

You could ask the teacher for an appointment and explain that your child saw/remembers this and is now worried (or that you are) that they will receive the same treatment. Ask for her advice as to how you should support your child? That way you have approached the school positively. If it then happens again, to your child, you are in a strong position to complain, and to take it to the Head/governors.

DarlingNikita
Would I be a dick for co-ordinating this kind of thing as it wasn’t my child?
No. It could be your child next (sorry if that sounds threatening; I don't mean to! I mean I think people should always support each other, basically).

I would only say, be sure that this definitely happened as you've heard it, so you know you have the facts. Then I'd go to the head, as the class teacher is unable or unwilling to deal with it.
..........

I agree with this.
Please do make sure you have the facts straight first.
If it happened as described, the TA behaved in an appalling manner and another job might be more suitable for her.

Last term my child was bullied at school.

When another child got upset about witnessing the bullying and told their parents their parents told me and spoke to the school. I'm very grateful to them.

Definitely complain - I'm old too and was humiliated like this in my first week at senior school.
I lived in fear for a few years after that and couldn't wait to leave. Became one of the troublemakers eventually and they were glad to see the back of me.
This kind of behaviour from teaching staff knocks the stuffing out of some children.

I'd talk to the other parents especially the ones who's children are being targeted. Then I'd write to the head and governors as this isn't acceptable at all and if the class teacher isn't doing anything about it then they are just as bad as the TA as the TA is under their instructions when they aren't in the class room.

Check on your school website for school policies on Complaints and Code of Conduct (they may be called different things at different schools) and follow them. There should be a procedure for you and the school to follow so you can check they’re following it properly.

I have spoken to the parent. They are really in two minds. They aren’t on the class WhatsApp group but partly they want to create a bigger drink and partly they are scared of being seen a THAT parent and causing more trouble for their child.

To be fair my child is quite robust due to (in their words) ‘being mocked regularly’ at school. They are a bit away with the fairies and it’s quite a tough school (although has a good reputation locally and Ofsted Outstanding) so they can be a target for other kids and they deal with it pretty well through evasion tactics. They are also used to being shouted at in school as a lot of the teachers are quite shouty so they aren’t traumatised by the incident as such - or is that just long term trauma?!?

I guess I was wondering whether this kind of school environment is standard? This dc is my eldest so I am feeling my way. School was pretty brutal when I was young, maybe it still is? What are other state schools in MC areas like?

We all said we wouldn’t stand for this kind of behaviour from this TA because they do it every year, but when it happens on your watch it can be harder...

Stink not drink!

Shouting should not be standard

It doesn't sound like a great environment to be honest, but if your child is coping and in Y4, I think I'd be sticking it out as moving primary schools can be tricky for children.

However, my concerns would be:
-Who is mocking your child, and how is this dealt with?
-Why is your child shouted at regularly? If it's a behaviour issue, does there need to be a different strategy in place?

If your child saw the incident, and you really do want to push this, then that is your way in.

You need to start with the class teacher too. "X saw Y's work being ripped up last week. I know there might be more to it, but I found it a bit concerning to hear."

I think you'd probably get more luck in challenging how often the class is taught by the TA. Once a week to cover PPA is normal. More than this isn't really ideal. Once a day would be poor (in my opinion).

Outstanding doesn't always mean much. When was the school last inspected?

You do need to follow the school's complaint policy- otherwise you can just be bounced back to the lower level. This would nearly always start with speaking to the class teacher first.

My nephew has anxiety and his supply teacher in year one tore his picture up and he still talks about it three years later.

It's disgusting, they have no place working with children.

Look up your school complaints procedure and follow it. Encourage the child's parents to do this too.
Do not contact the Governors direct. Contact the Clerk if you must. The governors will not be able to sit on a complaints committee if they have any prior knowledge.

There are so many wonderful people who would love to be a TA that you don’t have to tolerate rubbish. Get her out

Thanks all, this is useful. We are going to wait & see the outcome of the parent’s complaint, but we are ready to withdraw our child from the class when the TA is in sole charge if needed. It would be good to know exactly how often the TA has them unsupervised. I think it fluctuates as the nature of the role the teacher performs includes irregular off sites etc

I think it is definitely reasonable to know how often the TA is in sole charge, and a bit more about this.

I don't think it's unreasonable to ask questions (either of the class teacher or the head). Do it in a non-accusatory way, like you just want to know more about what is happening in the classroom.

I'd ask things like:

-How often is the TA in sole charge of the class?
-Who plans and assesses the work for these sessions?
-Who ensures quality teaching during these sessions?
-How is the TA supported if there is a problem during one of these sessions?

Maybe then raise any concerns you have either about the TA, or the school more generally (if your son is regularly mocked, that is a concern, even if he says he copes with it ok).

I would avoid heresay though (e.g. things that have happened in previous years) and remember that the school can't discuss any particular incident involving another child with you.

I think you are on shaky ground if you start withdrawing your child every time the TA is in sole charge, though. It would be treated as an unauthorised absence, and you could end up getting fined.

I’ve been a TA in a class where the teacher was sometimes like this -tearing up children’s work and shouting a lot. It’s hard to witness even as an adult tbh.

Apparently one of the most common phobias is public speaking and it usually stems from when someone has been publicly shamed in school