Why is mens behaviour excused?

[gwackywacky]

So tonight in a group situation (a group that I started), this older man (20 years older than me) turns around and basically lays into me, making some really cutting comment. Telling me I was full of shit (I was discussing a technical detail with someone else), telling me to stop bigging myself up and talking a load of crap.

I was actually really shocked and there was this kind of appalled silence around the table. This isnt the first time this has happened, he has been extremely condescending to other people. His turn of phrase to me was really cutting and his tone was really nasty.

I'm afraid I absolutely lost my shit with him. I properly laid into him, it turned into quite a loud fight, and luckily one other well respected woman in the group piped up and said "to be honest, she's completely right. That was utterly uncalled for".

Right, case closed.

But what I find fascinating is that two women were actually making excuses for him.

One woman there and then at the table started gathering on in a wishy washy way to kind of excuse him.

Later, another woman told me she thought he was just joking.

And then later one guy texted me to say he did think it was out of order, but at the same time this man was going through a stressful divorce, blah blah blah.

I'm just really hurt, but also quite fascinated by this idea that people seem to make apologies and excuses for men. Why is that? Why do other women especially make excuses for men? You see it when it comes to cheating, too. What's the logic at play here?

Good for you for arguing back

It doesn't sound disproportionate to me. He butted into someone's conversation to tell the OP very rudely to stop bigging herself up. He had a history of being condescending and rude in the op's group that he had joined. It sounds as if her reaction was just what he needed

I agree. Time to stop being nicey nicey and tell these people to learn to be polite.

Yes, I agree CoalTit, that's not in doubt for me. If man or woman wants to lose their rag with someone, then that person is well within their rights to have a dig back (whilst also recognising that there are better ways to handle it, as OP appears to have done in taking on board Azail's suggestion of how to deal with it next time).

It's cultural, it's to do with the default settings that our culture 'programs' us with
we expect men to be masculine and masculinity is about being dominant, not backing down, so when men behave like this we don't question it we feel as if it's in their nature but when women in behave like this it's much easier to see them as being in the wrong.
He felt entitled to cut you down because you were speaking in a way that challenged his masculine authority and he has absorbed from society the message that men are entitled to their authority just by virtue of the fact that they are men. They don't see authority and respect as things that they have to earn, rather they see them as things which are pre-installed in them.

BrainFart, unfortunately, it's what happens. People are more concerned with things returning to the status quo than they are with actually resolving the issue. We've seen enough threads on this board alone to show that instigators are rarely confronted. Peacemakers who approach the victim and tell them 'it was just a joke' or 'don't take it seriously' or 'they're going through a tough time' aren't going to confront an instigator. If seeing consequences for bad behaviour was their aim, they would approach the victim and encourage them to put in a complaint to HR instead. They would offer to corroborate a statement. They would offer some helpful, constructive support.

To me it feels like they want to feel as though they're doing something to help, without actually doing anything to help. The behaviour is less about the victim and more about their own sense of comfort.

However I do agree with you that it isn't a men vs women issue, which is why I haven't gendered my responses. Instigators come in all shapes, sizes, sexes, races, orientations and ages.

How does anyone keep control of a group of people?

Divide and conquer. Turn them against each other.

The exact reason that they didn't stand up for you, is because that they were afraid that he would then turn on them. And also that they have been taught since birth that women are worth less.

I have seen women writing articles on women's rights, I have seen men reacting to them cruelly, calling them crazy and feminazis. I have then seen women do the same - call them crazy and feminazis, and say " I would never say that", simply because they are AFRAID of men, so they distance themselves from the other women's behaviour.

It is no secret that women are held down and abused everywhere. My male friend told me that men really enjoy the power of keeping women down, and why why would they give it up.

It is going to take women:
Loving themselves and standing up for themselves (like you did)
Loving and standing up for other women
Supporting other women
Seeing that female energy is very strong and powerful

For all this to move forward

@Timeywimey10 I am the same! I also am afraid of opening my mouth in groups, where men are there. Because I have been laughed at by men before.

It is horrible isn't it. I have been in groups - where the men openly laughed at everything that the women said.

We need to fight for ourselves and stand up for ourselves more

I also think that we need to fight for ourselves and make sexism a more serious offence.

Men can only do it, as long as we allow ot. We are half of the population - we have a big voice.

I read something recently , an American man said that he is sexist because "If anyone is racist, it is taken very seriously, and it is seen as awful, but if anyone is sexist - no one bats an eyelid, I can get away with it".

I also remember very clearly a gay man saying to me once, "why are women nice to men, men are not nice to women", e.g why do we keep bowing to and fawning over people that are abusing us in every are of our lives.

It is US that need to care about ourselves more

Men really enjoy the power of keeping women down
Of course they do it means they can be pretty confident that half of the population will unquestioningly defer to them so they just have to worry about dealing with the men.
When women can collaborate support each other and understand the mechanisms that men use to keep them down they stop unquestioningly deferring to men.

@rhinoskinhavel the two big thing's that men do to keep women down is:

Tell women that they are crazy if they speak up about women's rights ,e.g (crazy feminist,)

Of course people speaking about their own human rights are not crazy!

2. Making women think that they are inferior and weak

This is not true- women are an incredibly powerful part of creation. We give birth to life. We have natural powers. We are strong and essential and important. And no one is worth less than anyone else. Some one is abusive of they say that. It is not true!

Let's start the kindness and support to each other.

I send you support @rhinoskinhavel. Lnow that you are powerful and amazing

I just want to remind women on here that you are strong, powerful, creative beings.

Feel it in yourselves! You are so essential and strong

The people who agreed with you stood up and did so, the ones who disagreed with you "made excuses".

Yes, you were absolutely right to stand up for yourself and the other person who agreed joined in to reinforce the disapproval.

Another person should never try to intimidate or be rude to another (even from behind a keyboard) but sadly it happens to often online and IRL. Good for you for sticking up for yourself, I wouldn't really expect everyone to agree on how the situation was interpreted though.

Why should the other women have to agree with you just because you are the same sex? If some of the men had agreed with you you wouldn't have said anything about that no doubt. Perhaps the women just thought he was in the right and you were in the wrong? And sounds like you gave him hell back, so what's the problem?

I'm glad you had at least one person sticking up for you. The man must know he was being extremely rude. If he'd done that to me I'd have walked out, you were braver to tackle it. I think he should receive some sort of warning.

Why is mens behaviour excused?

It doesn't sound like it was excused (you and other's picked up on it and actively objected.

This type of behaviour isn't exclusive to men, it's exclusive to people who think their opinions are more important than others.

Baiting thread title.

Baiting thread title.

Exactly. And it's mostly worked.

@saraclara What's that snide little comment for? It's a male issue. No doubt about it.

You know the setup gwackywacky but in my experience, there are just some men and women who are obnoxious, ill tempered and rude to colleagues. They shouldn't get away with it but often do unfortunately, especially if they've been in the firm for a long time.

HR should send the bugger on a course to learn interpersonal skills and anger management. Bet they don't.

It's a male issue. No doubt about it.

What? Being an obnoxious, self-absorbed idiot? I've met plenty of those of both sexes. Making it a 'male issue' has, however, guaranteed the OP a certain level of immediate support (hence the title!)