AIBU to find this Boden ad offensive

[SkinnyNorris]

I live in Germany and received the latest Mini Boden catalog. Granted I am an English speaker and come from a country where minorites have a long history of having negative connotations attached to them.
The German word for fist bump is Fauststoß, yet Boden chooses to use the term Ghettofaust, literal translation ghetto fist in this ad. “Ghettofaust für maschinenwaschbares Gewebe”
Please tell me, slang or not, AIBU to feel a way that Boden should have thought twice about using this term.
I wish I could post the picture but mumsnet doesn’t give me this option. This is pg 93 for anyone with the catalog.

I'm a translator (though not to German) and I understand what you mean OP.

Obviously I have no idea what went down in this case but I can't tell you how many times I've told clients that they really (really) shouldn't use the words they want to use. I'm often overruled.

There are so many factors at play and sometimes it seems that producing a decent text is the last thing that gets considered. Many people don't seem to understand that words really do mean things!

On the other hand, using the word "Ghetto" for promotional purposes in Germany should always be second and third guessed for very obvious historical purposes

Personally I don’t think either Fauststoß or Ghettofaust is an appropriate word in the context.

High 5 would have been better.

Thanks for your reply but the term ghetto these days has nothing to do with Jewish ghettos.
That's new to me ... but in that case, what is it you find inappropriate? Could you be more specific?

As for whether Germany is more or less PC than other countries ... think of how many times you hear the phrase "grammar nazi" on UK and US media. That's something Germans find very non-PC.

It’s non-pc in Germany due to the context.

YABU This is utter tosh, it shouldn't offend anyone. Its not racist, not a word that I would stop a child from using, it may be lost in translation, but who cares. The bump has taken off in many countries due to the spread of germs, and connection to boxing. Give back the old fashioned hand shake any day.

As anyone doing fist bumps should probably know better and may well come from a ghetto rather than doing a proper hand shake may be the term is fine.

(Ghetto I assumed was some reference to black ghettos not jewish and presumably there is some implication if you are black you are mkore likely to do some kind of fist bump rather than a proper hand shake so I suppose that might be construed as racist if that fact is wrong - I don't know. I just favour hand shakes.)

I don’t believe ignorance is racism. To me it simply means not knowing. When you know and educate yourself, then willingly choose to continue a certain behavior then it becomes racism.

So if you use the word pki or ngger from ignorance that’s not racism?

I've found that Germans use a lot of English words in ways that jar for English speakers. 'Handy' for mobile being an obvious example.

Presumably Boden is just trying to appeal to kids with the 'ghetto' reference, I don't really see what's offensive about it?

diddl. That’s a correct term, although I’ve also heard Fauststoß. But Faustgruß sounds much friendlier and less karate like😁

As for whether Germany is more or less PC than other countries ... think of how many times you hear the phrase "grammar nazi" on UK and US media. That's something Germans find very non-PC.

Good point. It's all relative, isn't it?

As the OP said, when I lived in Germany, there were plenty of 'Negerküsse' and 'Neger' (as in coke and beer blends) about. My step-dad's ex-wife had a black cat called 'Mohrle'. Things may have moved on since then, it's true, but I still translate some utterly dire (usually gendered) stuff from Germany now and again. There's only so much you can do, especially with uncooperative clients as PP says.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-35296993

The use of ‘ghetto’.

Who doesn’t know that taking about ghettos, particularly in marketing to middle classes is distinctly dodgy?

It doesn’t matter what kind of ghetto you’re referring to.

Ghetto Princess, ghetto boot, ghetto fabulous, ghetto blaster - these are all dodgy too and people find them offensive.

What Boden really need is a German compound word that means ‘Clothes that are cute on 5 year old girls sized up and marketed to adult women.’

Ghetto booty ^

The greeting was made famous by Barack Obama. It transfers less bacteria and there was a campaign to have it replace the handshake. It was called the Ghetto Fist, as an insult and just as a valid term for it.

I don't know if we can judge, not being part of the history and not being German speakers.

If it's a term such as, retard, spastic, or with other connotations, then it should be dropped from mainstream media. We campaigned so joyriding wasn't used anymore, for example.

But Ghetto fist is used legitimately in other countries, as are the words we no longer use. So it may be a mistake.

If you Google, Fauststoß, boxing and fights come up. Given the current climate, that may have been rejected for good reasons.

What Boden really need is a German compound word that means ‘Clothes that are cute on 5 year old girls sized up and marketed to adult women.’

Ja. Or dowdy-women’s-clothes-in-massive-sizes.

Perhaps the translator is a 60-year-old middle-class woman who was being paid so badly for the translation that she did not have time for research, had no idea what a fist bump even was, and asked her granddaughter, who told her the German word from I'm a Celebrity. The company itself may well have just trusted in the translator to produce a decent ad.

(I'm a translator, but it wasn't me :))

Anyone who uses 'grammar nazi' or uses 'nazi' as a suffix to any other noun (or morpheme, e.g. 'feminazi') is clearly setting out to offend others and display ignorance. It's of a piece with 'snowflake' and SJW.

The moment somebody uses terms like this, the discussion has ceased to be rational and degenerated to personal abuse, so it's time to leave.

My German isn't colloquial or up-to-date enough to include the terms under discussion but it is fascinating to read about it. Boden ought to be listening. I can't credit that the word ghetto has lost its holocaust connotations, but then I'm of the generation for which broad, vertical blue and white stripes will always mean the concentration camp uniforms in photos we saw as children.

Times move on and so do languages and fashion.

I'm a German native speaker and think this is a bad translation but not particularly offensive. It's unidiomatic and wouldn't make sense unless you knew the English expression behind it. Ghettofaust on it's own to describe greeting someone with a fist bump, yes, but in that sentence it's just very odd.

I also don't think the word 'Ghetto' is considered offensive. I'm in my 30s and might say that for example a place or an outfit is "ein bisschen Ghetto" (a bit ghetto), which is probably a bit sneery but wouldn't be associated with the Third Reich in this context if that's what you were thinking of. My family on my father's side are Jewish if that makes any difference at all.

'Fauststoß' equally wouldn't make much sense to the average German in your quote from the Boden catalogue, so not sure that would be an improvement.

But Ghetto fist is used legitimately in other countries, as are the words we no longer use. So it may be a mistake.

There is no country that I’ve ever been to in which ghetto is not pejorative.

It comes from the Italian for the Jewish ghetto in Venice - as in Shylock.

I'm in my 30s and might say that for example a place or an outfit is "ein bisschen Ghetto" (a bit ghetto), which is probably a bit sneery

Quite. It’s sneery because it’s pejorative.

It doesn’t have to refer to Jewish ghettos (which were not specific to Germany) currently its more immediately associated with ethnic minority areas, particularly black, particularly in the US.

It’s just that in Germany it has additional ill-advised connotations.

Quite. It’s sneery because it’s pejorative.

It doesn’t have to refer to Jewish ghettos (which were not specific to Germany) currently its more immediately associated with ethnic minority areas, particularly black, particularly in the US.

It’s just that in Germany it has additional ill-advised connotations.

I disagree that German speakers would particularly think of black areas in the US when using the word ghetto. The more likely association might be Berlin Marzahn, Duisburg Marxloh, Plattenbau, 'white trash / chavy' types, Turks and Arabs with blingy cars and outfits. Not that this makes it any better. Either way, it's certainly not a word Boden want to using in their catalogue!

The people you need to ask are the Gremans tbh. Not british/non german people trying to guess if the word is the rigth one/they should be offended. And from the links above, they dont seem to think it is an appropriate/obvious translation.

I suspect Boden has used a translator that wasnt that good and knew little about the german culture.
And I think that their answer should be more thoughtfull than 'yes its the right word'

It doesn’t have to refer to Jewish ghettos (which were not specific to Germany) currently its more immediately associated with ethnic minority areas, particularly black, particularly in the US.

It’s just that in Germany it has additional ill-advised connotations.

I disagree. YOU, as a brit, might automatically think about ethnic minority areas in the US. Im not sure why you think that it also means EVERYONE should think that way. Or that it makes t ok to use that word because 'its just Germany being sensitive due to their history'... How patronising!
The only way to build an ad for a specific country is to make it appropriate to that country. It isnt. and its not acceptable, full stop. Whatever the way it might translated or understood in other countries does not matter one jot.