Wibu to consider private school due to wrap around care costs?end

[Yeahthatthing]

School application time for DC1. We have good local state primary schools and I always assumed that he'd go to one of them. But I've been looking in to the wrap around care and it's going to be a £14.50 a day for the cheapest option. So around £2700 per year. Which is the same price as the prep school attached to his current nursery.

The prep school has the breakfast and after school club onsite and run by the teaching assistants and lunch time supervisor where as the local wrap around care is off site with a 'walking bus' arrangement.

We will absolutely need wrap around care.

Also the local holiday club is school hours at £25 per day and wrap around care needed before/ after that as well (so £39 per day) where as the prep school has onsite holiday provision at £25 per day, full hours.

Seems ludicrous that a private school will be a cheaper option?!? What am I missing?

So WiBU to send him to private primaryfor financial reasons?

I'm getting more and more surprised at each update

Me too. If it's as cheap as you're saying, and so much is included for free. I would be wondering why the school only has 60 students.

Well, teachers in both sectors provide after school clubs for no extra pay. It’s not lovely- it’s part of the job. The point is whether they are properly qualified to teach things music or ballet. They might be- but it seems unlikely. Particularly considering the peanuts they must be being paid!

The school sounds too small to be financially viable IMO!

At the schools DH used to work at it wasn't expected BertrandRussell but he's been out of teaching for around 5 years, so maybe its changed.

Maybe it is too good to be true! Maybe the info I have on cost is incorrect, I'll find out and report back!

Teachers never get paid extra for after school clubs. In either sector.

You honestly sound a bit starry eyed about this school. Do be careful.

Maybe the info I have on cost is incorrect

I would definitely check about wrap around care / holiday club as the website says these cost extra. I can't see anywhere that says this applies to the juniors only.

As for the fees their website only shows the £1590 per term figure, it doesn't state this is for juniors only. However, you seem to have more information about the tuition fees than the website, so it may be that the infants is a different price.

Probably you know this anyway if your child attends the nursery but also check what the school considers to be "Juniors". In the prep that my niece attends, "juniors" is Y1-Y3 (we discovered this when niece won the "junior school maths prize" In Year 3 and it turned out she wasn't a genius but in the top year of what they considered to be "Juniors")

I would ask how many children take the 11+. To have a 100% pass rate they must only be putting in their very brightest students, because even capable children can have an off day and not pass.

“ To have a 100% pass rate they must only be putting in their very brightest students, because even capable children can have an off day and not pass.”
I would be more interested in how much time they devote to 11+ coaching. It’s easy to get 100% pass rate for privileged children if you spend enough time on it.

I would say 100 pass rate is impossible unless they are literally entering two extremely bright kids.

(There is a private school very near me who said they had 100% A and A* in Latin. One girl took it and got an A. Sometimes private schools can be very economical with the truth!)

they offer ballet, football, rugby, la cross, modern mixed dance, various music, basketball and netball, various interest clubs such as debate, coding, creative writing, in the fees).

Is such a wide range of clubs viable with only 60 children? My high school had over 500 pupils and only 10 of us attended debate club (free of charge).

And how can they manage to form teams? Do they ever play matches against other schools?

There is no way they will have teams with 60 kids. Also specialist ballet teachers cost money!

Bertrand I'm not starry eyed but I do think it might be a good solution to the problem. Reasons I like it (in no order):

• appears cost effective (may not be)
• 11+ success rate
• We already know it as a nursery and like the feel and ethos
• only one drop off/pick up
• wrap around care on same site with same staff

Concerns I have:

• close to work not home so only I can do pu/do
• financial sustainability (from both sides)
• differentiation and meeting need in mixed age classes
• how learning is achieved
• whether there's a focus on educational attainment over general well-being

We shall see when I go to the open evening.

BertrandRussell I don't know if they have teams. Though DS is currently showing no interest in team sports, I will ask.

I'm compiling a list of questions from this thread, you've been very helpful.

I'd also add "small school" to your list of concerns. Small schools can be wonderfully nurturing or claustrophobic depending on your personality and how you "fit" (imagine having a key interest that no one else shares, for example) . Plus there's a much smaller pool of potential friends, which may be exacerbated if there is an unequal girl/boy balance.

RedskyLastNight yes, it is a slight concern, but so is him going to the state schools which are both 3 form entry, so massive for primary schools. I think he'd do better in a smaller environment but there is no in-between size!

Pretty sure I know which school it is now.

To me it looks like a bit of a hybrid of a state and independent. The ISI report is good but not stunning, I'd want a fee paying school to be excellent across the board in all areas but this one isn't (if it's the right one). Does it have the facilities you'd usually associate with an indie? Space, good sports facilities, good science labs, art and DT offerings etc?

It also looks like it's run as a privately owned business (might be worth a look at companies house for its financial position). Small schools like this with no underpinning foundation or endowment are at risk for sudden closure which would be very disruptive for you. As much as I wish our fees were lower, this seems like a risk to me. The average primary state funding per year is nearly £5k per pupil (under in some areas, over in eg London). We all know how the state system struggles on those numbers so I'd be asking some serious questions about 1) percentage rise in fees per year (expect an average of 5% per year) and 2) financial stability of the school/business. If eg five pupils leave in one year to change schools that's a hefty loss of income and could sink the school if it has no safety net.

@Yeahthatthing - My children went to a similar sounding school and it was wonderful for the time they were there and they hugely benefitted from the small class sizes, individualized education. I went that route for similar reasons, in my case it was only fractionally more than wrap around care and I couldn’t get wrap around care after we moved and the waitlists were long (2-7 years, as priority went to children from the nursery in both local wrap around clubs/programs). I also liked they were right by my work in case of emergency. It was a very special time and I look back fondly.
For one child in particular it gave them an incredible start and they went onto get a fully funded spot (scholarship) at an independent school before eventually choosing a local academy. But has thrived academically. The other that went there has SEN and while they weren’t set up per se, the small class size and individual attention meant things I was told by specialist would take years to learn happened in months. Everyone on the Paediatric team was blown away. One Dr said he wished all his patients struggling in the state sector could have a few years of the successes small inclusive indiVidualized education can bring. I think it was because education could be completely individualized, so if needed weeks could be spent learning same basic spellings as opposed to keeping up with the class. Nothing but good. I was blown away by progress, and with little to no stress. And yes of course not comparable to the large independent schools but a truly lovely experience.

@Yeahthatthing do you feel comfortable sharing the city it is in? I have a feeling it may be the same school DN went to and they have nothing but wonderful things to say!

Also something to note, i don’t think OP is comparing this to a glitzy independent school nor wants that. So I’m not sure it matters if they can’t offer all that schools charging £10k + a year so.
In some ways this school sounds like a lovely village primary.

I'm also concerned that we won't get wrap around care due to demand in the state schools, they are over subscribed with priority given to sibling groups. I'm not sure what we'd do if we couldn't get the wrap around care. Child minders are like hen's teeth too.

In my area (Kent) state schools have absolutely no involvement in the 11plus other than hosting the exam on the day. People hire private tutors, the schools are not allowed to teach the test so while teachers have a rough idea of which pupils might pass they're not actively involved in any way.

At a private school which does a lot of 11plus prep it would be very easy to get a 100% pass rate for those who take the test, by stopping any child who might not pass from entering. The question is how many children take the test. A 100% pass rate of one or two children sitting the test isn't that impressive.

BarkandCheese that's the thing, I'll never know that here. The 11+ isn't compulsory, or even common as we're only sort of a grammar area and the area the school is in isn't, so in reality there'd be no way to know without asking the previous years parents whether anyone was prevented from taking it.

“ BarkandCheese that's the thing, I'll never know that here”
Well you could know.

“Mr Headmaster, how many children sat the 11% from your school for each of the last 5 years, and how many passed?”