to think it's *not* more dangerous on the streets for kids than when we were kids?

[Echobelly]

I do hear parents saying they don't let kids who are old enough, IMO, to be out and about a bit (say 10-11) saying 'But it's not like it was in our days' or 'There are so many nutters out there'

I'm in early 40s and was walking about 10-15mins to local shops and back and forth to best mates house 10 mins away by age 7 (suburban London). I didn't let out my kids that young mainly as they didn't have friends living that close and there are so few kids of that age around independently I was worried someone would report me! I did start sending DD to corner shop (less than 30seconds away) from age about 7 and a half and I think she only reported to me once someone expressing concern about her (and not calling the police, thankfully!)

I think cars, the biggest danger, were just as big a danger 'in my day' and in fact people generally drive more slowly and safely in towns than they used to (other than those looking at phones )

I think 'nutters' have always been an infintessimally small risk and there's no evidence there are 'more nutters these days' - just more news channels!

DD started walking to and from school about a mile away from final term at primary as I knew she would need to make her own way to and from secondary school and most people do seem to accept kids walking then, but I don't get why so many don't seem to allow them to do anything unsupervised until right at that moment.

There are more cars about these day and also a lot of selfish people with their head in the clouds and on their mobile phones.

As for stranger danger I don't think it's no different.

Knife crime scares me.

My parents still live in my childhood home.

When I was growing up all the kids from the street played in the street. Tennis, bike riding, wide games which used all our gardens as well as the street.

Everyone had a car, (or 2) usually they were parked on drives.
Now the whole street is double parked both sides.
There is no room to play tennis. Bikes are likely to scratch cars. It doesn't feel safe as you no longer have a clear view of oncoming vehicles, especially if you are a small person.

I still have no problem letting my child walk to the shop from GP's house, I'd be very reluctant to let them play in the streets like we used to.

I would say it is definitely more dangerous now for kids. Unless you are in a very rural area where the pace of life is much quieter.

Social media arguments and bullying spill into real life.

Kids are mugged for their phones, trainers etc (items that didn't exist or where not hog end value years ago)

Drugs are far more accessible and rife now amongst teens. At 13 I wouldn't have had a clue what any drugs where and neither did my peers. (early 80s).. Our vices were sneaking alcohol from our parents and smoking cigs behind the youth club.

Gun and knife crime is far more prevalent and younger siblings get caught up too.

*high end value

it's chicken and egg as far as roads are concerned. More cars, and more fear that your child is going to get knocked down by one, so they aren't road-wise Factor in that many of those "more cars" are dropping Junior off to school and Junior doesn't know how to cross a road.
There are I imagine, the same number of child predators around. Most of th within the extended family unit. The man asking you to see some puppies was always a bit of an urban myth (as to its extent) It was always more likely to be your Dad.

Cars aren’t even first on my list of things to worry about. First would be scooters or mugging maybe? They have a parent patrol at my DH old school that has been on the news because of its success. We had so many muggings that the parents patrol the town and have cut the crime right down.

Agree it depends on the area though, my mums isn’t at all like this in the essex countryside.

Considering there was a stabbing in my block just last night (it was on GMB news), traffic is the least of my worries and I live on a super busy high street. In London in particular, I'm resigned to the fact that I'll be taking my DD everywhere she needs to go for the foreseeable future.

I don't know, I'm definitely more worried about things that just didn't exist when I was a kid. County line drug gangs using small children, and lots of other stuff associated with that. It happens in my area. I also feel (and this is just a feeling) that maybe people don't watch out for other people's children the same way they did when I was young. Could be wrong.

I agree with you catlady, it’s very rare that other adults will get involved in disputes here for fear of being stabbed themselves. The parent patrol goes in teams so no one is alone facing a stand off. We had a row of stabbings one after the other in summer last year and one was a 45yo man. No one was sure if he was involved (drugs) or a bystander and it’s still not really come out how he was involved. All the others were 15-19.

There's zillions more cars and trucks on the roads and these cars are heavier and faster than ever. Even when they're not moving, more cars parked on the roads means less visibility/safety for pedestrians.

Surely you accept that?

And yet pedestrian deaths and serious in road traffic incidents have fallen dramatically compared to 30 years ago.

Over a much longer term, deaths on UK roads peaked in 1966 at around 8,000 and currently stands at around 1,700, having been at roughly the same level since the start of this decade.

You were over double the numbers of deaths on the road in 1930 than we have today despite there being a fraction of the traffic.

I drove past my childhood home recently... a place where we used to play kerby, football, ride our bikes and generally just be kids. You couldn't do that now, the entire street is filled with cars parked up.

I think there are just fewer kids playing out too becasue parenting expectations were different. When I was a kid I had one after school club per week (girl guides), the rest of the time we would get home and be straight out playing until mum called us in for tea. These days kids are in shit loads of clubs or parents are expected to be hands on all the time doing stuff together.

I think the biggest danger with cars is that people don't expect kids to be playing out. We have a street where kids play out a lot (my fault apparently) and whenever anyone new moves in one of the first things they say is "I didn't expect the kids to play out".

We are in the middle of a knife crime epidemic, countless young people being stabbed and dying, in the middle of the day

In the first six months of the year, nine under 18s were fatally stabbed in England and Wales. Obviously 9 too many and every one a tragedy, but it isn't countless. It does demonstrate how perception and reality differ.

I live in a small village and there is most definitely far more traffic now than there was in the 80's/90's and apparently 90% of people living rurally these days NEED a huge 4x4. There are also a lot more delivery vans and lorries passing through. We don't have any pavements.

I also have the benefit of my own experience to go on. Mum was quite happy to let me out unattended from about 9/10 onwards and it wasn't safe then she just didn't know about it! I was flashed by men on the moors, threatened by farmers with guns for walking on a public footpath, chased by cows and all sorts of scary shit.

Much more dangerous now. People are angrier, children are targeted by other children violently, more people, less police, the internet bringing the crazies together. Communities are not the same. I have a six year old and a three year old and I’ve no idea at what age I’ll let them go to town on their own.

Far more cars in our village. I live just off the street I grew up in. 40 odd years ago our village was in the "country" its now a commuter area with numerous developments and planning permission for 1000 more houses. Our quiet wee street is now a cut through for one of these developments and its constant traffic.

It's different dangers because we live in different times. And whther kids are safe out on their own or not depends entirely on where you live surely? My 10 year old can play out safely on our housing estate because it's no through, has speed bumps all the way, and 15mph signs everywhere. Plus he's only playing with and interacting with people we know (it's a small area). There are no gangs round our way.

there are definitely more cars but less car accidents and less fatalities with cars than 30 years ago in fact it is about a third of what it was in the 1980's
People are very bad at judging real risk in scientific studies people exaggerate the risk of some things and minimise the risk of other things
the number of children harmed by complete random strangers is no different today than 20/30/40/50/60 years ago the fact is that 95-97% of harm comes from people they know
There are greater risks online than on the street, removing one risk by creating another is not really achieving anything
Crime figures are not intrinsically rising
I think the underlying truth is not that risks are greater but people are less willing to take risks, or consider the risks outweigh the benefits.

even simple things like climbing trees of course there is a risk of falling but there is also the benefit of achieving something, being outside etc climbing a climbing wall in a safety harness is not the same in fact knowing you are safe even if you make a silly move leads to greater risk taking not more care
I do not think removing all risk ( i'm not talking about stupid risky) from children's lives is in the end that helpful to them maturing and getting resilient.

Far more cars in our village. I live just off the street I grew up in. 40 odd years ago our village was in the "country" its now a commuter area

But there is no correlation between numbers of cars and numbers of serious casualties on the road. There were over double the rate of accidents in the 1930s, on roughly a tenth of the traffic.

I'm not sure it is more dangerous now - but I don't think it is any safer either. I think the world has always been dangerous, in all sorts of ways. You're right that there are more news outlets now, and that is what is making people aware of what is really going on out there. When you see what's on the news, you can't blame people for not wanting their children to be outside alone.

When I was doing my nursery nursing training, we were taught that children can only start to judge the speed of oncoming traffic at age ten. My own children, all born in the 70s, were welcome to bring friends home at any time, or to go to play at other peoples houses, but were not allowed to just go out to play. I had friends who thought it was fine to let their 8 year olds go out for hours and not know where they were, and they thought I was too over protective. But my thought was that children who "went out to play" without any plan, became the teenagers who went out to hang about on street corners and get into trouble. I was proved right in our children's cases. As teenagers, my kids went out, but always for a reason, and still brought their friends home. My two friends had quite a lot of problems with their children, shoplifting, drinking in parks, being brought home by the police, etc.. One girl was described by a judge in court as "the only child I've ever met who I would describe as a hardened criminal". She was 15.

I meant to add that I don't think that all kids allowed a lot of freedom will get into trouble, but there has to be a balance, and a judgement as to what your child is capable of coping with.

'In the first six months of the year, nine under 18s were fatally stabbed in England and Wales. Obviously 9 too many and every one a tragedy, but it isn't countless'

For those 9 fatal there are a hell of a lot more non fatal, life changing, and quite often u reported through fear of reprisal. Anyone who thinks we are not going through a epidemic of violence is very much mistaken.

Prison holds no fear for most of the ones doing the crime. They see it as a badge of honour.

I moved from London to get away from the violence that I saw daily on the streets.

The biggest change is the disintegration of and lack of communities and community spirit- which in turn makes it more dangerous for children.

When I was young if you went "out to play" you'd be walking past homes of neighbours who were all known to each other. People generally would be more likely to help out or intervene if a stranger was hitting on kids or they saw something odd.

Now the default assumption is that the stranger is a knife weilding drug addict so there is less built in community protection.

This kind of thing makes it less safer.

I think the use of the word “fatally” is relevant there FunkyKingston. They don’t all die.

This is Enfield crime for 2019. Stabbings would be the violent crime category.