To feel uneasy about this? School related

[PretzelPrincess]

So DS (4yo)came home and described a game they'd played in his class. It involves grouping the children according to various characteristics- height, hair colour etc.

The children were also grouped into a 'dark skin' category which my DS fits into. The school/class isn't very ethically diverse so you can imagine there wasn't very many children in this group.

My DS came home and kept looking in the mirror asking why he was in that group and asking if he has 'dark skin'. AIBU to feel uncomfortable about this? My H seems to think I am. I can understand that the school may be trying to teach a we are different but the same sort of concept. But at this age I feel they have no concept of race and colour so why would they feel the need to point it out?

And opinions/another perspective very welcome.

Has he ever played Guess Who? It's sad that he saw dark skin as something negative .

I disagree that 4 year olds are unaware of differences. I think kids know who the tallest child is or who has curly hair and race is one of those things.

When my kids were toddlers and pre-schoolers they used to stare at people who were very different to their normal world - so men with long hair, tattoos, different races etc I think it's healthy not to pretend that differences don't exist. Your son has darker skin than mine - that's fine and he should be proud.

It would make me very uncomfortable and sounds like a great way to give a child a complex about the way they look. Like why??

Skin colour will be one of a load of characteristics in the exercise, and not treated any differently to having brown hair, or green eyes.

If there's one or two children who would be singled out (particularly for a protected characteristic), I'd consider whether it's an appropriate characteristic to use for the exercise.

For example, if there's one child in a wheelchair, I wouldn't choose whether children use a wheelchair as one if the categories we look at. I'd want to choose categories that highlight the similarities between the child in the wheelchair and the others.

They're only four - they can see the differences already but it's learning that those differences don't matter and that there's plenty of common ground that children often need to be taught.

It doesn't sound as if he is seeing the colour as a negative. He's looking in the mirror and questioning the terminology 'dark skin'. Obviously yes he has dark skin.

What i would worry about is the physical separating up which went on (you stand here, you stand there ect) and him being very obviously put in the minority because of his skin colour. I don't think that's a particularly sensitively thought out activity within the contex of our society. To me it sends a bit of a stark message to such a young mind. Four year olds want to fit in with their peers, not explore the possibility that they are in a minority.

Surely its only an issue if you see dark skin colour being a negative attribute in a person?

You would never for example ask the kids to group into fat and thin, ugly or pretty etc.

Skin, hair, eye colour etc I would think is ok and a good way to show kids having a different skin colour is no different from having a different hair/eye colour.

The question is why he is seeing as an issue?

Recognising and discussing similarities and differences between themselves and others is on the school curriculum for 4 year olds, so it's going to be covered.

The idea that children are 'colourblind' is a myth, and avoiding discussing skin tone is actually more likely to leave children with negative feelings about themselves and others than being open and positive.

There is a difference between discussing skin colour (good) and dividing children up by it- particularly in a a class with a significant white majority.

I would be deeply uncomfortable with dividing the children along racial lines. Especially with an epithet like "dark skinned". Obviously it is entirely not the same as tall children, blue eyes children etc.

I would definitely say something to the school.

Yes, I think there's no need to get personal in that situation and use the actual children's characteristics to illustrate differences when one or two are in a racial minority.

If you had a child with a facial disfigurement in the class, you wouldn't teach other children to be accepting of them/show that child was the same as everyone else by bringing them to the front of the class and talking about their specific disfigurement (unless the child had specifically agreed this in advance) - you'd depersonalise it by showing the class other children with similar conditions (maybe with videos, etc) and might even send the different child out to make them feel more comfortable as it's incredibly awkward to have your differences pointed out to everyone else publicly like that.

I can understand that the school may be trying to teach a we are different but the same sort of concept. But at this age I feel they have no concept of race and colour so why would they feel the need to point it out?

You can't inoculate against racism without addressing the issues which drive it. I teach evolution using skin colour as an example. Partly because it's easy to understand but mostly because by understanding why phenotypic differences arise students see how silly racism actually is.

I would be deeply uncomfortable with dividing the children along racial lines. Especially with an epithet like "dark skinned". Obviously it is entirely not the same as tall children, blue eyes children etc.

It is exactly the same. There is no such thing as 'racial lines', race does not exist. Being dark skinned is no more of an epithet than being dark haired or blue eyed.

You say he has 'dark skin' but it's relative. Is your child black? Or mixed? Or Caucasian with darker skin?

The problem will arise if the children view dark = bad. Lining up a group of 4 year olds might seem harmless at the time, but it's certainly an activity that the darkest child may grow to resent and despise.

Thank you for all the comments, it's been an interesting read.
When I said children don't see race/colour I meant that my children so far haven't. They haven't questioned me about it and don't seem to remark on it when talking about other people. I try my best to answer questions openly and factually but discussions are also lead by their curiosity.

I don't see being 'dark skinned' as a negative thing at all. And like another poster has said it's all relative anyway. I guess I have asked for opinions because I don't know wether my uneasy feeling is due to my own experiences of racial discrimination/segregation and I'm being completely over sensitive, or if I have actually picked up on something not quite right.

He is happy and settled with his teacher so I don't want to broach such a sensitive topic unless there's an actual reason to do so, and only in the right way.

I guess your all right, context of the game is key. I may try speaking to her about the game just for a little more information.

@PretzelPrincess it could well be that the racism you've experienced has made you feel uneasy about the situation and understandably so. Out of curiosity, as your H thinks you're being unreasonable over it, has he experienced the same treatment as you?

most schools seem tp do that game - my son ended up in a group of 3 kids that are clearly very white ( my family is extremely pale, his school is mainly kids from asian decent). he found it fascinating- he had obviously already noticed different skin colours, but we talked about how they evolved and why. it was a great exercise , and 2 years later neither the 2 black kids nor the 3 white ones are damaged in any way ;) just with a lot more understanding about differences and their reasons

I think if they are showing that people come in all different colours, sizes etc then there’s no problem. Like others have said, a lot depends on context.

I wouldn’t think standing in a line from darkest to lightest hair colour would be anything to worry about. However, I do understand why ‘ranking’ by skin colour might be a sensitive subject to many people so I wouldn’t do this in a classroom unless it was to make a clear point about diversity.

I do recall having a primary teacher who was Jewish and their core subject was history. He showed us pictures of the hair colour charts that hairdressers use and photos of eye colours. He asked us to find where we all were on the charts and then explained what the Nazis considered desirable / undesirable. It’s how I learned about Aryan race.

It doesn’t sound like this particular teacher is doing anything like that, but they may have not be aware that it could be an insensitive thing to do.

It sounds like a warm up game.
I have played them on training courses:
Teams compete to line themselves up or sort into groups as fast as possible .
Height, birthday month, number of siblings, size of pet, etc etc.

You have to communicate, negotiate and make decisions very fast as a group.

Skin colour is a characteristic like any other. Only contentious if we imbue it with values.

That lesson would make me uncomfortable, yes. I think it is a lesson that could only be taught well by a very skilled teacher, I’ve not met lots of very skilled teachers unfortunately. I see no need for it age 4. DS is yr 2 and has never had a lesson about that.

Some people are saying “children know what colour they are... they shouldn’t feel it’s something we can’t talk about...” I disagree. Children know what they look like, but they don’t see it as interesting or significant until someone tells them it is. My DS has no interest in others’ skin colour, as it’s not part of how I describe people to him. We talk about who is fun, who is mean, who is trustworthy (or not!), who is bossy... When teaching him history once I briefly explained to him that everyone’s family came from Africa originally but different families left at different times and some families lost their sun tan and some still have a lot of melanin in their skin now, but he has v pale skin because it’s often cloudy in Ireland and his family has been there a long time. Then I moved on and skin colour is not something he thinks about. Yet.

There has been some psychological research that divided children into groups based on attributes (something about dots), it was striking that the children then started to be negative about people they saw as having different attributes...

Sorry your son lost some innocence OP. I would probably have a word with the teacher.

@ Skysblue your child has never asked where different skin/eye/hair colours come from? and why they are different? i find that strange. i would rather have it addressed in a matter of fact way than treated as something we don’t talk about with all the baggage that comes with

I’ve not met lots of very skilled teachers unfortunately.

@Skysblue are you a teacher yourself? Are you involved with assessing teachers?

Agree that maybe a bit more context might help. I remember DD doing similar but they were using it for simple graph/information recording work. They also went round asking each other what their favourite colour was. I think they also did simple traffic recording seeing how many cars, vans etc went by. Can’t remember if the ‘physical characteristics’ one included skin colour but it’s not an offensive one imo. Interesting that your DS doesn’t notice colour. DD was definitely aware at that age and as pp’s have said, asked questions about it.

Understanding the world
People and communities_
30-50 months
"Knows some of the things that make them unique, and can talk about some of the similarities and differences in relation to friends or family"

This quote is taken from the EYFS Framework, it is part of the curriculum and a outcome for children to reach.

OP I hope this is helpful.

That should say an outcome not a

Children know what they look like, but they don’t see it as interesting or significant until someone tells them it is.

Sadly, where I teach, someone will. If teachers were to never discuss these issues then the only message some children would receive is the wrong one.

If all someone’s experience of their skin colour being pointed out is negative, then the game will ring alarm bells. But if the game is as a pp described, it sounds neutral/ positive.

I’m white but I had divorced parents, which in a catholic community in the 70 s was a big no. My mother was officially banned from the Catholic Church ( excommunicated). It was never mentioned or discussed in our family, even though it was obvious, and I had pointing and staring and other people making veiled comments. All of which was very uncomfortable, and lead me to think I’d done something wrong, as kids do.
So it could be a positive thing op , that it’s brought up discussion in your family, although it might seem like a bit of a fall from innocence to you. Sounds good that you’ve answered his queries.