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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Êtes vous française? Est ce-que j'ai tort ici ?

38 replies

Babyinmytummy · 12/10/2019 10:18

I speak good french and my husband is French.

We have a one year old and are visiting his French grandparents.

The thing is, FIL swears a lot. There's obviously a lot of merdes and putains on the tv but that's not aimed at babies.

But is it normal for FIL to be going on with the merdes, (t'es) chiants and putains as well as a lot of slang like bouffer, cul, and similar words in front of an 18 month old who is learning to speak?

You see, I picked up some of this language when I was at uni, thinking it was fairly banal but I got absolutely roasted by the 20-something teacher (age mentioned so you don't think it's a generational difference), and I have met various French people of my age over the years who enjoy telling me I'm wrong in French about stuff like this. When I was young and full of energy I was happy to debate but now...

Anyway none of my family uses bad language around the little one. Is it just a French thing? Is it ok in French?

For the record husband does swear but doesn't really do so in front of the baby.

So what do you think?

OP posts:
Babyinmytummy · 12/10/2019 10:22

Oh yeah also stuff like con and geule and faire la geule.

I an fluent french but an i being too British about this?

OP posts:
Littlebluebird123 · 12/10/2019 10:28

The French people I know do not speak like that, especially when children are present.
But maybe it's not a French thing. There are plenty of English people who swear around children.

littlepaddypaws · 12/10/2019 10:28

how long are you visiting for ? how much is ds likely to pick up over a short visit ? dh needs to speak to his father about it if need be, i personally wouldn't worry if it was for a few days, dc hear enough swearing in english outside the family. most people wouldn't understand if a child said a swear word in french and you would need to play it down to be honest.
it might have been better to put your title in english, i speak french but the the title is a bit... wanky tbh

Littlefish · 12/10/2019 10:29

I don't think swearing in front of children is ever necessary, regardless of the language it's happening in.

I love a good swear, and am, sadly, renowned for it! However, I managed to avoid swearing in front of my child until am unfortunate car incident when she was about 12!

Your FIL should not be swearing front of your child.

Thehop · 12/10/2019 10:31

It’s not a french or English thing it’s a twat thing.

Swearing around children is not okay, especially at that age. I am still. Close to my exchange family from school (a 30 year friendship now) and spend most summers On french campsites or visiting them and really don’t hear that around young children.

Hazza000 · 12/10/2019 10:33

Hmmm I'm not sure that's as it should be? I mean sure there's slang but putain and cul are a bit crass round babies?? Faire la geule ok but the rest maybe not.

funinthesun19 · 12/10/2019 10:33

I had to google those words out of interest.

Nope. You shouldn’t say those words in front of children.

Cherrysoup · 12/10/2019 10:34

It’s not a French thing, no. Fil is being a wanker. Does your dh not say anything to him? Why don’t you? I wouldn’t hesitate to say ‘Little one is learning, could you please not swear in front of him/her’. Pas devant les enfants!

Cheeserton · 12/10/2019 10:34

There can be quite a lot of regional variety in French for propensity to swear and perceived level of offence associated, but generally no, too much is too much and to be avoided in front of children.

ferretface · 12/10/2019 10:36

Bouffer I hear a lot in casual conversation with friends but they are friends who swear quite a bit in English too.

Babyinmytummy · 12/10/2019 10:37

Title is wanky?

Sigh. Can't win. Trying to attract people who are French rather than people who are not native to the context of those words. That's all. Yes they are classed as swear words but perhaps a French person has a different perspective.

We are visiting for a fortnight. My husband regularly tells his dad to stop being such a misery but nothing changes.

OP posts:
Minai · 12/10/2019 10:37

My French dad and family don’t speak like that around my children (or not around them tbh) I would say around a toddler that is picking up language and will presumably speak at least a little French it is not acceptable to be speaking that way and I would have a word

Babyinmytummy · 12/10/2019 10:41

But thanks everyone for your help yes I agree he shouldn't be saying it.

Years of wanting to punch him in the face have made me eat with my head down so i struggle to speak to him.

Oh well. Home next week.

Ahh I can hear husband saying to ds ahhh sacré DS Smile he's cute with him.

OP posts:
MontanaSkies · 12/10/2019 10:41

How would your husband feel if DC's first words in French were con, putain, cul etc? Would he like to hear these words spoken by his child? There's your answer...

Fwiw I am English (but spent time in France) but in my limited experience I haven't heard this kind of language around dc in France.

coatlessinspokane · 12/10/2019 10:52

You see, I picked up some of this language when I was at uni, thinking it was fairly banal but I got absolutely roasted by the 20-something teacher

I was the same. I think when you learn another language the swear words never seem quite that bad because you just see them as new vocab and they just don't provoke the same emotional reaction. So I was full of "putain"s and "ca me fait chier"s! Plus there's something about French slang that feels so satisfying to say.

But your FIL is native so should know that's not the way to speak.

Parker231 · 12/10/2019 10:56

I hate hearing people swear in any language. I don’t and if I hear anyone doing so, my opinion of them drops drastically.

Lysianthus · 12/10/2019 11:11

Similar here, except it's my step mother who is French. She comes from a rural part of France (south east), and years ago (long before she was on the scene) we lived in France & I went to school in Paris. The regional differences are enormous. She swears like a trooper and to be fair I do join in (because swearing in French is onomatopoeic and more satisfying, oddly) but not in front of the children. However your DC is tiny and to be honest your FIL probably speaks incredibly fast and uses slang interspersed with the odd sweary one and it wouldn't bother me too much. If he does all that with a Gauloise pinched between his lips I'd be more concerned!
I find it weird hearing putain etc used on France Inter or Culture which I listen to fairly regularly. Courage, et bon voyage!

SnowsInWater · 12/10/2019 11:18

My in laws are French and we spent regular time in France around family when my kids were little. They would never have used those words around kids (or anyone else I think 😊)

OakleyStreetisnotinChelsea · 12/10/2019 11:24

My mother in French and no, the family don't swear like that in front of the children. Though my sister and I picked up a lot of interesting vocabulary on residentials in France which we knew not to use in front of the family! My uncle has young children and is careful with language.

LeGrandBleu · 12/10/2019 12:09

It is highly complicated to understand the relationship we have with l'argot and words that would be shocking in English but absolutely normal in French. You give examples that differ widely. Some are wrong, other belong to every day conversations in families and with friends.
To say bouffer is not swearing, it is argot, and it can be used when talking about eating too much. I say it that to my children, usually more in the negative form, so "arrête de bouffer" but would never say allons bouffer. La malbouffe is how we call junk food.

I have no problem saying to my mother " elle est chiante" when she calls me to tell me about my sister's latest drama which means everyone has to change plans, hotels, flights . And she is not offended or shocked, her reply is usually "je sais"

I have never used cul, but plenty of merde when forgetting the keys, dropping the jar of honey. Merde is also what everyone says to wish good luck, as saying bonne chance, brings bad luck.

Putain is not the equivalent of bitch. It is used as "for god sake" or to express surprise and disgust as well, so an expression such as putain j'y crois pas, in the context of a bad news .

It is part of our culture, part of our literature. The classics we had to study at school had gros mots in them. Read Verlaine, Flaubert, Zola and don't even get me started on Queneau.
If you remove them you have a poorer language. For example we don't really have a word to say ugly, so we use moche. There is of course laid but it is quite specific in its use, and you would never say that a house you visited hoping to purchase is laide. You would say moche or pas belle.
so I am in the middle between you and your husband.

KindergartenKop · 12/10/2019 12:23

I am reading this thread with interest! Is 'cul' incredibly rude? Like the English c word?

Babyinmytummy · 12/10/2019 12:41

Grandbleu thanks your post is exactly what I was hoping for.

Fwiw he does say bouffer as in on va bouffer or bouffe ça toi! While pushing something across the table.

I hear what you're saying about putain but would you say these words in front of your kids. I say them myself just not in front of the baby or in a professional context. Like I say I was badly told off for using chiant at uni.

OP posts:
LeGrandBleu · 12/10/2019 19:38

KindergartenKop cul is not an insult, it means ass and so you would say - I wouldn't but wouldn't be shocked to hear it in a shop - ce jeans te fait un beau cul. Or you want to sit down on a sofa, and there is no space, so bouge ton cul.
Personally I don't like cul, and I never use it. However culot (the nerve, the cheek ) and to a lesser measure culotté are absolutely fine in most context. Quel culot is quite a nice expression actually.

Babyinmytummy no, not on front of babies, especially not my babies. Merde and putain are mostly muttered to myself than said to someone, like just finding a parking spot at the beach and realise I have forgotten the bag with the towels at home (we are in Australia) .
I wouldn't say chiant at work, but it wouldn't be unusual to say je suis dans la merde, j'ai besoin d'aide or when talking about someone to say c'est un emmerdeur .

there isn't a define line. It is subtle. The person you are talking to and the degree of intimacy is really important. And the same word has many meaning. If you ask me about the latest movie, c'était comment ton film hier soir? and I reply c'état hyper chiant, on est sorti avant la fin.

Somehow kids know that they can say some words but not others. I always tell my kids (all teenagers and all taller than me including the DDs) off, you can't swear until you have a university degree, but the same word , for example bordel, can be fine. So I don't say, bordel arrête de taper sur ta soeur, but would absolutely say to DS range moi ce bordel, tu devrais avoid honte de ta chambre. As it can mean mess or a massive problem, quel bordel, qu'est ce qu'on va faire .

To solve your situation. Just say to your DH that you understand that his family is quite relaxed when it comes to using everyday words, but that he should understand that to a British ear, it makes you uncomfortable and that maybe they can reduce the amount of merde, putain, fait chier, around you and the baby. You can't say much about bouffer if this is what they use instead of manger.
You learn a language you learn a culture, and the relationship with les gros mots is part of it. And it is evolving with the introduction of verlan. I am too old to use verlan, but my kids or their French friends will say chelou, truc de ouf, teuf..... but because it is something I hear it in movie or the music my kids listen to, but I didn't experience growing up, I don't use it.
Maybe start talking verlan or straight argot to shock your DH Grin. Say c'est l'heure d'aller au pieu, je me casse, je vais dire bonne nuit à ta reum

Blackbird1234 · 12/10/2019 22:59

I’ve lived in France for most of my life (mid 20’s now) and I’ve found that it’s definitely dependant on the area. I’m in the South and that type of language is very common and even my teachers when I was very young wouldn’t hold their tongues too much. Where I am it isn’t seen as “swearing”, really, certainly phrases like “faire la gueule” “bouffer” and “chiant” are just apart of every day language that you would hear everyone say. However, your FIL does sound rude, certainly the “bouffe ça toi”. In my opinion (purely from growing up here), the swearing in general wouldn’t be the issue, it would be the way he’s phrasing it towards people which is indeed rude.

awesomeaircraft · 12/10/2019 23:10

I am French and no, no-one in my immediate family speaks like this, alone or in front of the kids. I would not approve of it.

I have some cousins who are a bit more loose in their use of their language.

I don't think it is a cultural or national thing at all. It is the same in the UK. Some families will use expletives profusely and some will ensure that their language is clean.

State your preference to them.

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