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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To politely ask for any experience with Borderline Personality Disorder please

50 replies

PleaseHelpM3 · 11/10/2019 14:07

Hi

As the thread title says, if you live with or love someone with BPD what does that look like in day to day life?

I'm trying to not be a dick to my friend, not harass them when they withdraw but I also don't want it to look like I'm just leaving them to flounder (as I've read fear of abandonment is prominent).

The NHS website says BPD can affect how people relate to others. But what does this actually mean?

How can I help? Can I help?

Thanks

OP posts:
JanesKettle · 13/10/2019 06:17

My suggestion would be to encourage and support the friend to access DBT treatment (group and individual).

You could also help by learning more about the condition from some of the reliable links already posted, and help change the stigma associated by providing accurate info whenever it comes up in conversation with others.

You could help your friend advocate for herself in medical situations if appropriate, as many medical practioners are the worst for stigmatising those with BPD.

Keep your own boundaries strong and respectful. Remember she's a person, not just a diagnosis. Do things you both like together when it works out to do so. The friendship doesn't and shouldn't have to be just about her BPD.

(There's some debate over whether women are being misdiagnosed with BPD when they are more accurately dealing with PTSD or C-PTSD type symptoms. Affirm to your friend that she deserves an accurate diagnosis!)

SofiaAmes · 13/10/2019 06:23

I found the book Stop Walking on Eggshells to be very helpful with understanding BPD and especially managing relationships with someone with BPD.

EvaGraceMummy2015 · 13/10/2019 06:35

I haven't really got anything to add that anyone else hasn't, but I'm following because my partner and father to my children has BPD and I can find it extremely hard to deal with at times, our lives feel like a constant rollercoaster of emotions, I know he has a heart of gold and he can't help how he reacts and feels sometimes so that's why I stay.. but it can be very overwhelming for me on a daily basis.. I feel like I never know where I stand with things and the lack of personal space he allows me can be a bit suffocating at times.. so I'm interested in reading about other peoples experience with BPD.

blackcat86 · 13/10/2019 06:46

DH has BPD although a couple of therapist have said it's now questionable as a condition. It manifests in anxiety and basically having the emotional and social skills of a toddler which can be frustrating but comes from a place of deep insecurity. DH struggles at work because he sees how things 'should be' and gets heavily invested in this, forgetting that he works in a sector that is very slow to change. He is unable to really be a supportive partner because he doesn't have much emotional energy left and he will manipulate to get what he wants - that tends to be anything awful like some kind of hustle, more attention or love in a dysfunctional way that hes learnt to receive it. For example, I may have been up at night with the toddler, had a shit day at work and be full of cold but DHs brain cant accept this to he may lie about a big accident on the way home or feeling ill to. MIL does this so it's very much learnt behaviour. We now have a code word that tells him 'DH I really need you to step up for me right now' and its amazing how quickly he can step out of the behaviour.

DanglyTasselsOfThigh · 13/10/2019 16:06

My dd has BPD alongside Schizophrenia.

The most helpful book I read a few years ago was 'Overcoming Borderline Personality Disorder: A Family Guide for Healing and Change' by Valorie Porr.

It really spoke to me about the emotional pain dd would be in and the analogy of, if you were running from a burning building on fire and in agony you would crash through anyone to get to a pool to extinguish the flames that were hurting you, explained to me why she can be so difficult and make such a big deal out of what seems to me to be 'nothing'.

It also educated me about communicating with her in a way that she can actually hear me rather than feeling invalidated by me which istantly shuts down the conversation.

If I can find a way to validate her feelings and her pain then the line of communication opens and we can talk. if I can't manage to then all bets are off and I have to wait until she feels better.

Boundaries are important to protect yourself from giving more than is healthy for you. Sufferers of BPD will hate your boundaries but they will also learn that they are there and if you stick by them you will protect yourself and this in turn will allow for a healthier dynamic between you which is in everyone's best interests.

OP you are a kind person and I'm glad your friend has you.

PleaseHelpM3 · 14/10/2019 14:18

Thank you everyone for taking the time to share, and frankly well done as you all seem to be coping- if that's the right term I suppose.

Do you feel it might be a symptom to lie, with regards to how someone sees themselves or how they wish to be perceived?

OP posts:
blackcat86 · 14/10/2019 14:35

Lies can form part of the manipulative behaviour. For DH this may be because it shows him in a favorable light or that it reflects a preferred reality. His perception of what has happened is also often of whack so he may not actively be being dishonest but equally his version of events arent necessarily true. DH is diagnosed but MIL has a lot of symptoms and is always catastrophising so on every car journey she 'nearly died' because of another drivers perceived poor road sense. If you unpick what happened, someone might have not indicated properly but not even a near miss has happened. This tends to focus on their own drama so I've came home once genuinely full of adrenaline after some pulled into my lane on an A road and MIL couldn't have cared less and changed the subject.

blackcat86 · 14/10/2019 14:36

Apologies for the typos!

AngelzEye · 14/10/2019 14:45

I found this video by a young woman with the diagnosis very helpful in showing me what it is like for people with BPD and how I could help support and understand.
(Although I know the experiences, symptoms and wishes for support vary a lot between people, just like they will do for people without BPD)

You sound like an amazing friend :-) But don't forget you must look after yourself first.

Vampyress · 14/10/2019 15:10

My heart breaks for people with BPD, I know a young woman who had a severely premature baby who was in ICU for several months. The poor mum had a breakdown and was hospitalised. Her beautiful baby was taken from her and put up for adoption as the social services considered her mental illness as likely to cause her to emotionally abuse her baby, I am not sure she ever even got to take the baby home. I hope some day the condition is better understood and successful treatments materialise in the future... xx

biggles50 · 14/10/2019 15:17

My sister in law has bpd. I am very fond of her and where other family members have cut contact, I keep a door open for her. I haven't seen her in years but I get emails from her. Many of the emails have been raging against her brother (my.husband) She says she hates him and that he is the cause of family members not speaking to her. I respond very carefully always, never accusatory, never telling her off, never relaying the contents of the emails to the family. She knows she can trust me and I have a deep respect for her because even though she has caused a lot of heartache with her lies, it's her truth and she's ill. It's a heartbreaking condition.

PleaseHelpM3 · 14/10/2019 16:45

Yes, that makes perfect sense, if lies reflect a preferred reality. It's just shit though isn't it. And makes you realise that you're never going to know what anyone is privately dealing with. Important reason not to be an arsehole to people.

OP posts:
Chocolatethief · 14/10/2019 16:48

I have bpd, I do feel everything so strongly and saying its like having no skin is accurate everything hurts so much so try to not minimize how they feel. I will try to not tell people how I feel when I am struggling as when I get that response it makes me feel even worse and like its abnormal to feel the way I do which for someone without the diagnosis is correct for me it's not. I pull away when I am struggling as to not burden people with my problems but it does help having friends message me to say they are always there for me and that they are not going anywhere. Quite often I dont believe that and am struggling with that at the moment as I am going through some changes in regards to my care. All you can do is be there but have boundaries me and my friend have them as we both have it and it's better as we dont rely on each other to get out of crisis. If your friend is I would recommend advising them to get help or to help them to get the help if you are able but dont be there default when they are in crisis as they need to be able to learn to recognize when they need help and access it themselves. I agree that professional's dont always take it seriously. But the most important thing is that you dont give more than you can you need to look after yourself first

TabithasMumCaroline · 14/10/2019 17:34

I spent around six years supporting a friend with BPD. Unfortunately she was not able to maintain a therapy relationship, stick to a medication regime, or complete any of the many programs she was offered. She uses alcohol to self-medicate instead which makes her feel better in the short term, but makes it immeasurably harder for her husband, daughter and friends. As lots of other people have said (and I want to thank Jas particularly, who has great insight into her own condition) you must make sure your own boundaries are firmly in place. My friend has three family members now in long term therapy as collateral damage. Her daughter moved out at 15 as she was unable to cope (mama told her repeatedly that she was a terrible person and was the cause of her mental illness and alcoholism) and spent six months dealing with suicidal ideation. She spent years trying to goad her husband into leaving her as proof of abandonment, leaving him in the end but then breaking into his house and trying to win him back, attacking him with glass shards, sleeping with knives under her pillow. He eventually took out a restraining order.
It’s very hard. She genuinely believes that everything she feels is reality. She would spend six hours arguing with me that I hated her, that I was trying to steal her husband/ daughter/ whatever. She is unable to comprehend that any of her thinking might be disordered, and so if she feels as though everyone hates her, they must. Ergo the only thing to do is disappear.
We have spent hours with the police trying to find her before she harms herself, I have had to call 999 having found her unconscious after an overdose (she has made numerous suicide attempts), and I have spent countless hours at the hospital seeking emergency treatment.
The tragic thing is that there is very little that anyone else can do. Reality has very little to do with how she feels, as the BPD has her convinced that everyone hates her. No amount of reassurance or action can help, so boundaries are absolutely essential. Without them, you may find yourself spending increasing amounts of your time trying to convince her that she is loved, she is valued, etc etc. But 24 (or even 4) hours later, you may find yourself having the exact same 6 hour conversation. Word for word.
She’s not able to self-soothe, and her distress is so great that she needs fairly constant reassurance - so she reaches out, usually to make an accusation, and to trigger attention and reassurance. I understand why she does it, and it makes her feel better in the moment (all six hours of it) but as soon as you are done, the feeling of abandonment kicks back in and do she needs more.
Be very specific on the time you are able to give. Boundaries. Set them. I can only talk for a few minutes as I have to take ds to the doctor. I am going out in half an hour. I can meet you for lunch but I have a meeting at 2pm.
Someone sensible on here told me ‘don’t set yourself on fire to keep someone else warm’. It sounds heartless, but family members have been advised by their own therapists that they should try to only be in touch if she can prove she is attending her counselling sessions. It’s pretty brutal. She’s been in and out of rehab and mental health institutions/ offered community programming for years, but can’t stay the course. As soon as she feels better, she walks out. Or as soon as any of her disordered thinking is challenged, she walks out.
It’s important to her that her counsellors have a positive image of her, and as she is a victim in her head, this is the narrative she uses. She is of course a victim of BPD, but her inability to maintain relationships is described to them in a lengthy series of ways she has been treated badly by everyone in her life. It’s awful that BPD distorts her reality in this way.
Anyhoo - when she lost her most recent job, she took off across the country again (flight has always been a response). I spoke with her therapist who confirmed that she had not been attending for the last three months, and who warned me that if I had heard from her and she was returning to town, that I should remove her daughter and myself immediately or call the police, as she felt that her instability was becoming too dangerous and that we were both likely to be in danger.
I bloody love the bones of her, but BPD has destroyed her family, and I can’t set myself on fire any more.
Kudos to you ladies living with and managing your symptoms. My heart goes out to all of you. I hope you all have great therapy and can stick with it. I hope my friend manages to get herself into a space where she is able to. BPD is a bitch.

Itsnotalwaysstraightforward · 14/10/2019 19:46

H

Itsnotalwaysstraightforward · 14/10/2019 19:53

Sorry, just checking my name change had worked.

Can I ask a question about BPD Vs C-PTSD? I know someone who has been diagnosed with C-PTSD. I agree that she has had life events that could lead to PTSD, although she refused offers of help and was very hostile to help. However, elements of her behaviour have been the same since she was a toddler.

What I'm asking is, if the person with BPD is the only one the therapist sees, and they truly believe that they are a victim, they are hated, etc., then will the therapist work out that it's not all as it seems?

I am vilified continually to anyone who will hear the person I'm talking about. The true reason is that I have put in boundaries when everyone else capitulates out of fear of her reaction.

SlightlyMisplacedSingleDad · 14/10/2019 20:27

Okay, I'm going to be very careful writing this, because it is not an easy subject for me. My ex almost certainly suffered from BPD - I say almost certainly, because she ticked every box, but every time she got close to a diagnosis she announced that there was nothing wrong with her (the problem was always everyone else) and withdrew from any intervention. Every person with BPD is different, and there are very different levels of severity in what sufferers experience. So I can only give advice on a general level and based on my own experience.

I understand the desire to help your friend. But my advice to you is to be very, very cautious. There is no doubt that those with BPD are in considerable emotional pain. Their behaviour comes from a place of extreme distress. I have every sympathy with that. However, their coping mechanisms are extremely dysfunctional. They can be quick to take offence - any perceived slight triggers deep-seated fears of abandonment. You may find that they experience things completely differently to you - a simple chat or interaction that you thought was entirely unremarkable, can trigger in them a defence mechanism at some perceived slight. In reliving something that happened, you may feel that they are describing something a million miles from what you recognise. Persuading them otherwise takes hours of painstaking work, and you may never get there. I never did work out the degree to which this was because her memory and sense of what happened was genuinely maladapted, and to what extent it was actually just gaslighting - because it always seemed to trigger a terrible rage, that would put me on the back foot, trying to reconcile what the hell I was being accused of this time against my (completely different) perception of the event. And somehow the outcome was always a tightening of her control, a further restriction of my freedoms, a distancing from my friends or family - whatever it took to placate her. Over a period of years, it is deeply damaging to be on the receiving end of this - you can totally forget what normal is.

The rages were terrifying. I use that word deliberately. It is three years since I divorced her, and she still has the capacity to trigger in me abject fear. And I'm a successful, professional guy who loves a good debate, climbs mountains for fun, and generally fears little. But I fear her. She can reduce me to a quivering wreck, even now.

The manipulative thing is real. Sorry to those who are reading this and have BPD, but the stereotype is there for a reason. It comes from a place of fear - I genuinely don't believe she ever woke up wondering how she could fuck with me today. But the coping strategies present with the disorder are dysfunctional - some have likened BPD to living in an emotional condition that never matured beyond that of a toddler. I recognise that. She knew what she wanted, to give her the sense of security she needed. And she would do anything to achieve it. Anything. Trouble is, it was never enough. There was a gaping void where her sense of self should be, that could never be filled.

Eventually, she became violent. That's when I quit.

Over the years, she did a lot of damage to me. And a lot of damage to our children. I don't think she meant to. She just didn't know how not to.

If you want to commit to helping your friend, that's admirable, and I wish you luck. But please protect yourself. Set iron-clad boundaries, because your friend will probably trample over boundaries if you let her. Trust your own perceptions, and do not allow yourself to be persuaded that things you know to be true are not true. Or vice versa. Understand that, no matter what you do for her, there may come a time when she turns on you. You may not understand why.

But know also that, when she's in a good place, she could be one of the loveliest people you ever meet. When she's healthy, she may display a sense of caring that you don't often find.

But that's when she's in a good place. Only you can decide whether the positives of the friendship outweigh the negatives. In my marriage, they didn't. It became a living hell. I have never been so happy as when I got my freedom back. Speaking for myself, I will never allow BPD back into my life again. Others reach different conclusions.

I'm sure there will be BPD sufferers reading this who will want to tell me I'm wrong. So I reiterate that this is my experience of living with someone who almost certainly had BPD. I'm not going to engage in any debate with BPD sufferers who disagree with me. This is my story. It is, as it is.

IfIHadAPenny · 14/10/2019 20:47

My opinions are similar to @SlightlyMisplacedSingleDad - although for me it was a different family member who has BPD (a parent). The emotional and physical abuse I ensured because of their behaviour (whether they could help it or not was irrelevant as I was a child in their care) was horrendous and left many scars.

I would be cautious, OP, and ensure you remain strong and have mental wellness. Don't take responsibility for your friend. Supportive, sure, of course. But only with as much support you can muster without being drained.

I certainly wouldn't judge anyone or stereotype them with any particular traits if they told me they had BPD, but if I'm honest because of my awful experiences I would still be very cautious.

Again, like SingleDad, this was just my experience of living with someone with BPD, and I appreciate there may well be a sliding scale of symptoms and I'm really impressed by those on the thread actively seeking help and support, you deserve to feel better.

PleaseHelpM3 · 15/10/2019 20:12

Thank you all so much for your contributions to this thread. It's very insightful and inspiring.

Can I ask one question, with regards to difficulty with sense of self? So for example if someone say Sam, was head hunted in their industry could a person with BPD say Lucy perhaps then cyclone very career focused in a way that almost mirrors Sam? Is that a symptom anyone recognises?

OP posts:
DanglyTasselsOfThigh · 15/10/2019 22:04

I have learned that one of the key traits of BPD is the chameleon like ability to become the person that they admire in the now.

I know that dd changes and trades personality traits like the wind but I know who she really is because i was her mum long before this illness kicked in. I have a lot of time for her but at the same time i know when I have no time for her.

It's not the same for you because this is my dd and I love her with a mother's love, you do not owe your friend anything and I am glad you are there for her but, like pp have said, i avoid the rage, i will not participate in the rages, they are indeed terrifying and I keep my distance if that is looking likely to happen.

This way we can still have a relationship and yet I feel safe too.

Look after yourself OP.

PleaseHelpM3 · 15/10/2019 22:18

No idea where that cyclone typo came from, I think I meant copy or something!

And thanks also to the advice from several posters on boundaries, which I have concluded I need to put in place anyway as atm, although of course I understand, it's difficult to not think everything my friend says could be a lie. For example, 2 significant changes in her career over 24 hours.

So I'm here, and she can reach me. But I am giving her the space she seems to need.

Thanks again all.

OP posts:
Cyberworrier · 15/10/2019 22:22

www.amazon.co.uk/Hate-You-Dont-Leave-Understanding/dp/0380713055/ref=nodl_?tag=mumsnetforu03-21

My therapist recommended I read this book to expand my understanding of BPD when I got diagnosed. It’s interesting- if you google it you get some of the information.

Interestedwoman · 15/10/2019 22:48

I have BPD traits or BPD. What I will say is everyone with BPD is different, as the traits that are used to diagnose it vary a lot. I like to think I'm not manipulative and don't lie particularly much.

Mostly, it's starting to be more often called Emotionally Unstable Personality Disorder sometimes.

People with it find it difficult to regulate their emotions, and don't react to their emotions the way most people do. It usually revolves around romantic relationships or friendships.

So, after an argument the person with BPD will often be far more upset than the average person- to the point that some will self-harm etc. They're not necessarily doing it to be manipulative or get any response, they're doing it for themselves as a response to their intense emotions.

They also will find it harder to deal with stressful situations- exams, financial stress, illness, whatever.

I would encourage your friend to get and keep getting help such as meds and therapy. As others have said, you are not an expert or don't have the level of distance a person working with them in a professional capacity can have. So, leave trying to 'rescue' them to the experts.

If they threaten to harm themselves just call 999.

What people don't realise is there is some evidence BPD can be virtually completely removed with adequate therapy- this is the only personality disorder of which this has been said.

It's perfectly possible for your friend to learn to live with herself and react to situations pretty much like everyone else, or be able to manage her reaction to situations.

In times that aren't stressful, she might appear quite different and grounded, for the want of a better word, 'normal.'

I don't think I would be friends with a person with BPD who hadn't had or wasn't currently having extensive treatment to help them manage their condition- but I feel the same about anyone with depression or anything- I admire and have more patience with people who are helping themselves.

Hope this helps and that you find some plus points to your friendship and have some fun times!

This is just my experience/generalisation, and as I've said, people with BPD vary a lot- not all of them have 'unstable sense of self' or psychotic symptoms, or some of the other traits, as to be diagnosed the person only has to have 5 out of the 9 traits. But I venture to suggest all/most of them have difficulty coping with stress and negative experiences/emotions.

user1471582494 · 16/10/2019 02:22

Boundaries are incredibly important.
Don't allow her to make you responsible for her happiness or her safety.
Living with someone with BPD is really hard, being a supportive friend from a difference will be less hard. Be prepared to be her best friend one day and cut off the next day. Mood swings are extreme and swift.

PleaseHelpM3 · 16/10/2019 07:10

Once again thanks all

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