To expect tenants to let tradesmen in?

[ForeverBubblegum]

Gas safety certificate is due on a flat we rent out, so we hired a gas engineer DH knows through work to do test and service boiler at the same time. The gas man offered to call the tenant and arrange a time with them so with permission I passed on the tenants number. All seemed simple enough.

A week or so later we got a call from gas man saying the tenants weren't in at arranged time, but they would reschedule. Today another call, tenant was not in to let them in again, and this time they are billing us for their wasted time (far enough, they could have been doing other work)

So was I being unreasonable to expect tenants to be home when they arranged to be? Should I have arranged to go with a key myself? Probably will have to now (obviously with notice), but seems like an unnecessary intrusion on their privacy.

Have you spoken to the tenants regarding this? It could very easily be a misunderstanding and they think that you will be there to let the gas man in to do the safety check.
I'd make sure they know that by arranging the time themselves with the tradesman, it was so they could be there to let him in.
I'd also speak to the tenants and make sure the gas man is being reasonable about the appointment notice and turned up on time and not hours late. That happened to me as a tenant, I did arrange the appointment, before 12pm as I started work at 1pm, no one came, he told the LL I wasn't in, which was true, but my neighbor told me he called at 2.30pm - not the time arranged at all and he knew I wouldn't be in.
Just advising that don't automatically assume it's the tenant doing the messing about. Try and find out what happened first, and then go from there. If it's the same scenario as me then don't be paying for the missed appointment! If they've forgotten or just not been in and the guy has turned up on time then I'd be asking for permission to let the gas man in myself.
I think there's steps you can take if you get nowhere with it, I get a threatening letter from my ha if I miss a gas safety appointment (which half the time I don't know I have but that's a different thread!) Saying they can break in and turn off the gas supply until I 'cooperate'.

Are you sure they know they had to be in? I could totally imagine if it was agreed "would it be ok if I come over at 9?" They would say yes and think they just show up and do their thing. I'm renting and all the services are organized by the housing cooperstive or landlord without me being present.

@alesdgr8 quote from shelter about 24 hours notice & allowing landlord to check safety & condition - you have the responsibility to let them in to check & service gas central heating - many people assume that landlords are interfering with their ability to enjoy property by denying access? really??? the landlord not only gave more than 24 hours notice(as per Shelter website) but gave the tenant the ability to choose best time - this is a safety issue & the landlord has a legal duty to do this annually

If your renting out through an estate agent they will do it with the tenants knowledge.
If your renting It by yourself the tenants have to give you the thumbs up to enter, as gas checks are a legal requirement.

& if you were a council or housing association tenant you would still have to conform to this & the chances are they would TELL you when the appoint is

Mojo - I said I need to be there, not they need to be there. As long as they give permission for me to let the gas man in then there's no need for them to take time off work (if they're working that day).

Obviously I can't make them give permission, it's there private home and I can't just walk in. But if they can't or won't let the guy in, then I would hope they will let me let him in.

I'm a tenant. Our landlord messages us asking if we will be in at a certain time/date and we agree something and always make sure we are in.

A specific time accepted by the tenant (ie not Tuesday afternoon, but 2pm, and if the gas bod isn't there by 2:05 they're free to go if they need to) then you are not unreasonable to expect them to actually be there as they arranged, so it does depend on the exact arrangements between the tenant and gas bod, as others have said they may not actually realise they were organising time to let them in, might just have felt they were organising a convenient time for it to happen - ie being out is actually an advantage to the time.

So it depends, talk to your tenants and arrange a new time, and yes you're certainly expecting too much if you expect them to "wait around", that's one of the advantages to renting. Expecting them to be there at an agreed appointment, not so much unreasonable.

Shitty behaviour from your tenant, I'd be sending them the bill. I'm a tenant, the plumber rings us directly and we arrange an agreed time

I'm a council tenant and I get a letter telling me a date, which I can call and change. If I miss two appointments then the letter says they will break the door down and charge me £100 for the privilege.

Can you write to them and let them know they will be in breach of tenancy?

england.shelter.org.uk/housing_advice/repairs/gas_safety_in_rented_homes

england.shelter.org.uk/housing_advice/repairs/repairs_and_inspections_access_to_your_rented_home

Have these tenants been fine up till this point? If they have I'd seriously ask if they knew they had to be in before threatening with letters of breach of tenancy contract. If they have been unreliable and difficult anywyas then that's different.

"If the gas man can only come during working hours and they are both working YABU. Surely you do not expect them to take time off to let your tradesman in?"

So when is the check meant to be done? It's for their safety too! If they are happy for the landlord to let the tradesman in when they are not there then good, but some tenants don't like this.

You should have checked with tenant. Do it now.

@ForeverBubblegum send them a text or email sayiIng the gas engineer will be attending on x day at x time as this is now expired and is a legal procedure that needs to be carried out. If this date is not convenient I will give access.

Check with the tenant first. That should be your first job, not whipping up a "aren't tenants shit" thread.

Those of you saying 'send them the bill'. How would you enforce that? Tenants pay rent to live in the house, end of. If a landlord forwarded me such a bill, I'd bin it.

@HauntedPinecone

She has been in touch with tenants, they’ve obviously twice made appointments but not been there when the engineer turned up

Maybe tell the tenants that engineers will have to turn the gas off if they can’t get in to service the boiler,

Try reading the thread pinecone

Actually, much as the tenant has the right to quiet enjoyment of the property they also are expected to act in a tenant like manner.

Yes, vague, but nobody would define that as pissing of the gas man for trying to make sure their home was safe.

OP had obviously discussed it with them, she got permission to pass on their number. Having caused her to be charged for missed appointments they have NOT acted reasonably, nor in a tenant like manner...

OP keep the bill for missed appointments, if it has not already got the times and dates missed on it ask the gas man for an amendment version and/or a letter explaining what happened.

And get over to Landlordzone and check how / if you can ensure you remain within the law when trying to get access to undertake your legal obligation. It may be that no certificate means the appliances will be deemed unsafe... and the gas supply will be capped... The thought of heating and hot water might sway them onto bring sensible.

Oh you can't send them the bill... Tenant fee ban!

Unless they have been there a while, before June, and you have such an eventuality covered in the AST!

To answer a few points,

The appointment was for 9.30, the gas man rang at 9.40 from outside the house, having apparently been there 5 minutes(admittedly I can't know he was there, but have no reason to think he wasn't). Tried to ring tenant at the time but no answer.

I don't expect the tenant to take time of work, she doesn't work a 9-5 type of job, so is often in during the week, not that that really matters, you don't have to be working to be busy. She picked the time, presumably when she was free. If she said she couldn't be in, it would not have been a problem, my objection is she arranged to be in at this time and wasn't.

I'm not going to charge her for the missed appointment (as pp have suggested), she is otherwise a good tenant, and I'm not going to fall out over a £50 call out fee. It's just a little annoying.

@Evilspiritgin that is actually not a bad idea - @slashlover thanks for explaining that as I said I would talk to tenant first but they do need to understand how important gas servicing is for them - its not painting a wall it is something that is keeping the place safe for the tenant - I would love to know what Housing Associations rules are on this (although I suspect they may differ from each other)

I would love to know what Housing Associations rules are on this (although I suspect they may differ from each other)

The one here goes to court for permission to force entry after three missed appointments

op have you managed to get the gas serviced?

I am a council tenant and we just get an appointment through the door. If unsuitable, we need to call to rearrange. And yes, we need to take the time off to allow access. Why wouldn't we? It's our possessions in the house so want to be present when workmen etc are there and we want it safe so an annual gas check is very much in our favour.

It's a condition of our tenancy that we will allow access for repairs etc.

I would love to know what Housing Associations rules are on this (although I suspect they may differ from each other)

Well mine is send a letter to the tenant, that usually arrives after the engineer was supposed to be there. Or call the tenant but not leave a voicemail, the day the engineer is due, then send the engineer anyway. Then send another letter to the tenant, or ring again but this time leave a voicemail, threatening to break in to cut the gas off and charge you as such for not keeping an appointment you didn't know you had. Then when the tenant rings in to explain they were at work when the engineer called and received no notice of any appointments, or tell them the letter arrived for the appointment after the appointment itself, receive a lecture on how important it is to have this has safety check and that if you don't cooperate then they'll cap the gas and charge you for the privilege. You ask if you can make an appointment and they make you one - and once again threaten that your gas will be capped if you don't cooperate. I have always been in for the one that I've arranged over the phone, but I do know someone who had 2 appointments arranged for them, that they weren't aware of, and their gas was turned off and they were charged a fortune to get it sorted.