To think you can't ban food on trains?

[poshme]

In today's times (sorry rubbish at links) there's an article saying the outgoing chief medical officer wants to ban food on trains unless for medical reasons.
AIBU to think this is completely stupid & unworkable?
Apparently it's because we're snacking too much & too many children are obese.

I regularly catch trains with my kids- usually a 3-4 hr journey. Invariably it's a meal time, and part of passing the time is eating a packed meal. Yes- it's not the healthiest meal in the world & includes crisps & chocolate, but as part of a normal diet it's fine.

My kids are not overweight. In fact they're generally underweight.

If this is implemented they're never be able to enforce it surely?

I'd rather not have my right to do reasonable things impinged simply because there are people who lack self control or can't behave responsibly.

Marylane, i think the point is to make the obese people less obese

The idea that there's a bright line between local and non-local journeys, where every trip and passenger can be placed on one side or the other, is not one that can survive contact with reality. It's perfectly reasonable to be concerned about obesity, but metrocentric privileged daftness like this isn't going to help in the slightest.

The local thing is a moot point. We have no idea how long commuters have travelled before they get into a town. They could be getting a connecting train and have been travelling for days as far as we know!

I'm in a London suburb and 'local' public transport can sometimes take up to 2 hours to get across town. How do they define a 'long' journey exactly? And my trains stop in central London, but they also stop outside of London towards the coast, so will there be a cut-off point in the middle of the journey where you will suddenly be allowed to eat?! The no eating signs will switch off! Ridiculous!

It's the one thing on her list I thought was a bit ridiculous - but presumably the practical version is not allowing trains to sell chocolate bars. Deffo not going to stop kids taken McDonalds onto the top decks of buses!

Is eating kfc on a bus reasonable though?

When you only have a single bus or train driver it's completely unpoliceable.

Hot food was at one point banned on our buses - and I've been turned away for having a takeaway drink, but teaching 'reasonableness' takes a lot more than just outright banning.

I've just read the Guardian article on this subject and a lot of the proposals make a lot of sense - altering the food environment to encourage healthier choices, essentially. Make unhealthy food more expensive, healthier food cheaper. I agree wholeheartedly.

But a ban on eating on public transport sounds unenforceable and draconian to me. I love having a buttie lunch on a train journey. I get that people might need to as part of their routines. OTOH, I don't love other people's food smells, so a hot food ban would be OK by me (and I think already in place on a lot of public transport to varying degrees of success?).

Maybe this is an attempt to shift the Overton window towards a healthier place. I don't disagree with that at all.

People need to eat if they are taking a long journey. The alternative would be stuffing ones face before the journey starts- hardly conducive to healthy eating!

They really don't, firstly, and secondly the proposal is to ban food on local buses and trains if I'm not mistaken?

That sort of local transport doesn't exist outside of large cities. Our local train service does a 3 hour trip with 15 stops How are you going to police who is allowed to eat on that train?

The thing is, a VAT hike on certain foods is something that could actually be done. You can agree or disagree with it, but at least some of the infrastructure is there. It's a possibility. The public transport stuff is not and is inviting derision.

It's ridiculous and unenforceable.

But I have to take issue with what you said in your OP...

Invariably it's a meal time, and part of passing the time is eating a packed meal.

Fair enough if it's meal time. Of course you can't expect your kids to skip their evening meal if they've come straight from school.

But I think part of the childhood obesity problem is that parents do actually see eating, as 'passing the time'.

Food has become like a babysitter for a lot of children, when they have to do something boring like travelling, or hanging about while a sibling does an activity.

We certainly have a snacking culture that we didn't have say 30 years ago. Other than a rare treat on holiday or similar I never had snacks even as a young child, you waited until mealtime and learned to live with mild hunger. Of course other eating habits have changed too. People (often) don't have regular healthy meals anymore, we are working long hours, rushing from one appointment to the next and family members on different timetables. So snacks and convenient food have prevailed. Interestingly the comparisons of obesity rates I've seen in connection to this idea are 30 years ago and now. It must be a factor when you think how many calories can be added to a day's intake that way. However banning snacks in any way is unlikely to be a success. You need to sell it to people so you convince them it was their idea not railroad them into it.

On the report I heard, she only wanted eating to be banned on local trains. So it wouldn't apply to your 3-4 hour journeys.

So what about someone who has to do a 6 hour journey using 3/4 local trains because there's no direct train?

Another "expert" who has intelligence but absolutely zero common sense.

This will just make life more difficult for those with long commutes, long working days and who are reliant on public transport. Out of touch and unworkable.

Is eating kfc on a bus reasonable though?

It's really not.

While a ban is unenforceable and of course you should be able to have coffee or water or a non-smelly snack you can tuck away in your bag while getting to work in the morning, it really comes to something when you have someone eating KFC or a kebab on a bus. I think it would certainly reduce this kind of thing (not eliminate).

The thing is, a VAT hike on certain foods is something that could actually be done.

There's already 20% VAT on takeaway/fast food, crisps, chocolate bars, fizzy drinks, etc.

There'll be an outcry if they try to add an ever higher VAT rate - don't forget Osborne's "pasty-gate" when he tried to add VAT to pasties and sausage rolls.

Thing is there is so much good stuff in the report it’s a shame the headlines have gone with the most unworkable one. It makes it easier to ignore the rest of the report.

There needs to be a lot more education and support around food (but children’s centres are closing and health visitors being slashed). My baby is 6m and I was asked by another mum if I’d given her chocolate yet as hers loved it as a baby. No baby should be having chocolate as an early weaning food. It’s some of these attitudes to food that need changing.

Outgoing Chief right? Well how about the focus changed to the actual route cause of obesity?
Education-bring back simple cooking classes in schools,run after school family sessions cooking lessons for free. They could be given a separate budget and this could create new jobs (which currently are sorely needed)
More support for GP/NHS services to be able to refer patient to therapies-often people overeat as a emotional coping mechanism.The NHS is so poorly funded, yet it would be more cost effective to provide preventive services at the beginning, rather than when a person has developed illness due their obesity.
Gyms run by local authorities should be funded to offer free services(especially during holiday) A lot of families the struggle to pay even a few pounds to take the kids swimming, tennis and other sports, hence making it just not viable option currently.
When you consider the amount of people using food banks, people on lower incomes, families and the elderly would very much benefit from total free access.

This notion that a ban on food on public transport is not realistic and is designed to make sensational deadlines-pitting people against each other.
Surely its time to realise that this is not a binary issue and needs a more measured response. Hopefully with better funding long term changes and saving are possible.
Also I enjoy eating on long train rides, its part of the fun!

Jow do they police local journey. My local train journey is on train that is making a linger hourney iyswim. Do people on the train for the whole distance have to show their tickets to eat??

Im not sure the person who said this was totally serious. But as a conversation starter...its done well

I know there is kazzy. The point I was making is that this is something that could at least theoretically happen: the issue of whether it would be politically viable is different. Whereas the public transport suggestion doesn't work even theoretically, and has evidently been dreamed up by someone who isn't familiar with the reality of using it outside big cities.

On the report I heard, she only wanted eating to be banned on local trains. So it wouldn't apply to your 3-4 hour journeys

Outside London local trains are national trains.

She also said there should be a maximum calories on take away food. I live on my own so if I order a take away it is normally for more than one meal. So if I order a cooked breakfast I will order a couple of sandwiches at the same time because I have to make the order up to £10 or whatever.

It's a totally unworkable idea.

I don't think you should ever need to eat outside a house or a restaurant, unless its a picnic or a really really long journey. It's perfectly possible for most healthy people to not eat for 4 hours
But if you dint drive its really easy to be out the house for 4 hours but not have time to go and sit in a restaurant for a meal. I leave home at 8 for school run, pop into town for errands and then head back on the bus middayish which would put my total time out at about 5 hours. So snack on bus and then a late lunch or sandwich etc in bus if time is tight. We have day trips out with DS, leave about 4 so by the time we're inback in home town its 5ish. If we stop at Maccies for food and sit and eat we're not gonna be home til 7m.if we get Maccies to eat on the bus we'll be back at 6. Sometimes life isn't practical.

Also in 6 1/2 months pregnant with twins so the idea of ANYONE taking my food away makes me want to eat their arm

On long hauls there is usually a buffet carriage or even a restaurant.

I agree with those who say it is unworkable. When I was working in central London I regularly saw people eating on the train on the way home, McDonald's or a sandwich. I saw nothing objectionable about that.

Sorry, I haven't been able to read the whole article as I don't have a Times subscription. Reading the first para or two though I think the subtext implies she means commuter trains. i.e. journeys of less than a couple of hours, not the Inverness to London. I can't imagine a ban on food entirely being workable, diabetics need food, people may have missed meals for whatever reason etc. but I think she is scraping at a broader point that as a nation we can't seem to go more than half an hour without a kitkat of a packet of crisps. Regular snacking like this just isn't necessary. It just isn't needed on an hour train ride to and from work and the temptation to do so is contributing to our obesity problem.

Just look at the food people take into the cinema, a bloody great hotdog, nachos and enough popcorn to feed a small African country. With the exception of diabetics I think people can go a couple of hours without stuffing their faces, and those who have a weakness for snacking probably don't need temptation every 5 minutes to and from work.