To not know what else to do?!

[99BehaviourProblems]

Posting here for traffic, sorry. Name changed also. Really desperate for some advice please.

I’m stumped, and feel like a terrible parent. I have no idea what to do about my DS5.

He is having some behaviour issues now that he’s started school. Some of these issues are ones I have dealt with in nursery too. But they just don’t seem to be going away no matter what we do. He’s in reception now, and is one of the oldest children in the class.

So far, in the past few weeks he has:

• hit another child with the palm of his hand to the other child’s upper chest (for snatching his toy)
• refused to do his work in class once because it was “boring”
• thrown a ball repeatedly where he was not supposed to be throwing the ball
• spat at a girl because she said she hated him
• called out repeatedly in class instead of putting his hand up
• talked and made silly faces when he is supposed to be concentrating

He is in all other respects a very loving, caring, kind little boy. He has a younger sibling who he absolutely adores and would do anything for. He is affectionate and kind at home. Though he doesn’t always listen to us the first time he is asked to do something.

When he misbehaves at school, they have told us that appropriate sanctions are put in place, for example he will get 5 minutes taken off his playtime, or he will have to have a time out in the classroom, or his name goes on a board. And they always explain to him why what he did was wrong. We then (DH and I) also explain things to him again, when he gets home, and ask him to try harder to listen and pay attention in class, to always be kind to others like he is at home and with friends outside of school, and never ever to hit or spit etc.

I am completely stumped as to where these behaviours are coming from though. He has never once to my knowledge seen a person hit or spit at another person. And I am getting really worried that there is something here that I’m missing? We give him lots of love and affection and try all kinds of firm discipline, consistently too, like taking away his favourite toy if he has hurt someone, etc. but then we still dread picking him up the next day. I have no idea what to do next. Are we crap at parenting? Is there something we’re not doing right like some brilliant discipline method that everyone else knows about?

Thank you in advance for any advice.

Calm and consistency is key with discipline so kids know where the boundary is. If it changes at all they can feel unsafe and that in turn causes behavioural issues. Praise when he does the right thing (eg sitting nicely, doing what he is asked, playing nicely), and when giving an instruction say his name first then only speak when you have his attention. He may be being distracted easily so doesn't hear it, or another thing to check would be his hearing. My own DC found it difficult to hear her teacher in a busy environment due to the tonal quality of the teachers voice - she couldn't pick it out amongst the background noise.

I would talk to the school so that can keep an eye on him - I presume he's only been there for this term? They can then look for any pattern (certain times of day, triggers, noise etc) and then possibly chat with the SENCO if they feel there is any possibility of SEN.

Thank you so much @ShawshanksRedemption ...believe it or not we are doing all this, the praising when he’s behaving really well, and speaking calmly but firmly when he has done something wrong. He understands and knows right from wrong, it all boils down to impulsivity... he does things because he is either impatient, or reacting in an inappropriate manner to something like another child snatching from him, or another child pushing him. It’s like he just doesn’t have the capacity to stop and think for a second. Is this some form of ADHD perhaps? I have been thinking about SEN for some time and have spoken to the GP but no nursery worker or teacher has expressed concern in that respect - just that he is misbehaving regularly.

I suppose SEN issues will become more apparent the more this goes on but I was really hoping to hear if there are others whose DCs might have had behaviour issues that didn’t involve SEN and actually just got better with consistent discipline and maybe as the child matured? Crossing my fingers in hope......

'Misbehaving regularly' may suggest an underlying need. In some instances, children start school and are very overwhelmed, which leads to frequency of issues. Sometimes there are issues which early intervention can resolve. And there are also those issues which may require some longer term support. If your dc is repeating behaviours which were already raised before he started school, I would speak to the teacher about the next steps - they are putting in the first wave of support within the classroom, but if this isnt working, what will they do next to support him?

*called out repeatedly in class instead of putting his hand up

• talked and made silly faces when he is supposed to be concentrating*

ALL behaviour is communication. figuring out what the behaviour is saying is the hard bit.

This behaviour says I can't do what you want me to do, but I don't want to/can't tell you that, so I'll deflect by being silly.
Being aggressive and being the class clown are well-known red flags for a child who is struggling to cope. Have a word with the SENCO and ask for their observations and advice.

Thank you so much all. This is really helpful. I think you’re all right and I really need to speak with the SENCO.

There are definite problems with his behaviour at the school, much as there were at his nursery/pre-school. But what confuses me is whether a child with SEN - whether that may be ASD or ADHD is able to essentially switch off those behaviours at home. He is never ever aggressive at home, sometimes does not listen, but I believe that to be fairly NT for this age group? And generally we have no behaviour problems when out at parties or play dates (and when I take him out somewhere I am not even exaggerating - but his behaviour is wonderful, whether that’s at the shops or elsewhere... I have never imagined a child with SEN to just misbehave in certain places or around certain people or does that absolutely happen? (I apologise as I really have no experience of this and don’t know much about SEN apart from what I’ve read about these two disorders).

Sounds a bit like my Ds at that age.

He has since been diagnosed with Dyslexia, dysgraphia and ADHD

Thank you @Oliversmumsarmy that is useful to know.

At what age was he diagnosed, if you don’t mind me asking.

And what were the steps you took to get there?

How did the diagnosis help in terms of additional support ...and how is he doing now?

Did you notice anything academically wrong first because my DS seems to be where he’s meant to be for maths, reading, writing etc. So I’m thinking it could be ADHD but then again I don’t know enough about that or other conditions to be able to say...

It's probably more common than you think to behave differently at home than at school but most people experience things the other way around with challenging behaviour in the 'safe place' of home. I remember a boy in my DD's class a few years ago who behaved terribly at school and was an angel at home but I think the parents were exceptionally strict and maybe there was just no wiggle room at home.

What is his communication like? Does he struggle to express himself? Could he be acting out because he doesn't have the communication ability to speak up when someone takes something/says something he doesn't like/he's frustrated etc etc. A full hearing check would be a good place to start but in terms of SEN there are so many issues that it could be and many of them are not diagnosable at his age.

You are most definitely not a terrible parent, you are aware of what's going on, trying your very to look for answers and solutions, willing to work with the school and seeking advice from others who have walked in your shoes before you. There are lots of terrible parents in the world and you are not one of them.

@theteenageyears thank you so so so much. I was lying awake worrying about all this and I really needed to hear that. Bless you!

Yes the hearing and communication issues may well be the cause... he can’t pronounce certain letters properly yet and sometimes his speech isn’t as coherent as his friends’. So it’s possible he misbehaves due to a communication problem and not being able to express himself clearly. We are on the waiting list for speech therapy already. Thank you for being so kind. Very helpful suggestions too x

Ds wasn’t diagnosed until he was 17 and at college.

He was always way behind on reading and writing. He didn’t read fluently until he was 12.

He was always the class clown and he was the same in school as well as at home.

I didn’t need an assessment to know that he wasn’t the same as other boys and girls.
I did pursue a diagnosis throughout his schooling but it led nowhere.

It was always wait and see and then when they had waited and seen they passed it onto the next school.

The idea that he could sit still for 10 seconds was something that was beyond his capabilities

He walked at 9 months and by 10 months was getting himself onto the windowsills and jumping off.

He was always good at Maths. Passed his 1 GCSE in Maths.
He trailed at the bottom for every other subject in school (usually between 4-14% in exams)

However he did a year at college learning a trade and despite being the youngest by at least a year he came top with an average score in his assessments of 97.5%

Biggest problem we have is because he can’t pass English he can never go on to do Stage 3 so this year he is completing his NVQ level 2 and is also pursuing a completely different career which is known for being very precarious work wise. Whilst also working a few hours per week in a shop.

It has been a roller coaster and in photos you can see me age 10 years with the first year of his life.

Why is DS expected to sit still and put his hand up in reception? I'm not surprised he's saying he's bored!

The provision sounds very formal for his age group. Perhaps the behaviour problems stem from - or are exacerbated by -school's unrealistic expectations.

"Perhaps the behaviour problems stem from - or are exacerbated by -school's unrealistic expectations."

Presumably they have seen hundreds of children pass through this setting. If they are raising his behaviour as unusual, it probably is. IME parents who blame school for behaviour issues will eventually, maybe several wasted years down the road, come to realise that it is not. I'm glad that op isn't doing that.

OP, I wouldn't be too concerned about him talking or pulling funny faces, calling out or throwing a ball where he shouldn't. I teach and that is within the parameters of what you'd expect from a 5yo who is new at school and still settling in.

But spitting and hitting is unusual and obviously non-negotiable. I think all you can do is support the school's message consistently at home, apply your own consequences, talk regularly (little and often) about appropriateness and yes keep your mind open to the possibility of underlying needs.

FWIW you sound sensible and lovely. The school will be appreciative of your support and it is certainly possible to squash these unwanted behaviours with consistency and perseverance.

Can you ask to come and sit next to him for a few classes? I bet he'll behave very well and that'll give the teacher a foundation to build on

Thank you very much all! Just come back from morning drop off - hoping and praying for a better day today. But it sounds like there are a few options that definitely need to be explored - hearing test, SENCO, speech therapy when we get to the top of the list...I’m told this is only a couple of months away hopefully as we referred him before the summer.

@Oliversmumsarmy I’m really sorry to hear about the journey you and your DS have been through, it sounds like it’s been a constant struggle. I do hope if there is going to be a diagnosis that it’s sooner rather than later in our case. I’m sorry it wasn’t in yours. Wishing him all the best!

And thank you also @itsmecathycomehome
you are absolutely right. Some of these things are quite minor in my view and we don’t worry much about him forgetting to put his hand up occasionally or throwing a ball... but the more aggressive behaviours do of course concern us. Is it however completely unreasonable for me to hope that he might mature and grow out of some of these behaviours? Or does that seem impossible and that it definitely sounds like there are SEN here? I say this because at nursery there were far more frequent issues (such as daily smacking of another child, and DS would get hit often too by other children, sometimes he would throw toys at others etc - and this was at age 2-3, and thankfully these are behaviours he has completely grown out of, so a part of me is hoping these other behaviours are settling in issues and that they will go away as he matures, and with consistent and firm discipline (little and often as you said). But I don’t want to be that delusional parent. He attended the school's nursery unit so I was hoping that if they had any concerns about additional needs they would have mentioned this to me already. Or is it usually the parent that needs to initiate these things... either way I’ll definitely have a chat with the SENCO.

Another thing I forgot to mention (and sorry to dripfeed) is that he is still in pull-ups at night. Despite all our best efforts, of giving him plenty of drinks during the day but none after a certain time (usually 4pm) he is still unable to keep his pull-ups dry. I know in my heart there is some sort of developmental delay here as all my friends’ children were dry at night shortly after being potty trained. He doesn’t have accidents during the day, and is absolutely fine if we are out somewhere and he needs to wait to use a toilet, but at night it seems he isn’t able to wake himself up to go if he needs to. We have tried all sorts of things, waking him before we go to bed so he can use the toilet again (obviously he really did not like this and who can blame him!) but the bed was still wet later on in the night, limiting water intake (we don’t drink juices etc at home), his room is next to a main bathroom and we leave lights on for him etc, but nothing seems to work. I spoke to the GP about it this summer but she just said some children develop that ability later than others... perhaps something to add to the list when I speak to SENCO or maybe unrelated, I am really not sure!

Thank you so much again everyone. I really appreciate all the posts and advice x

@ncbaaybeee A very interesting idea, thank you. I would be extremely keen to do this and will suggest this to the teacher.

With Ds and Dd they were the same in school as they were out of it and with that I knew when I looked at them that neither would be going down the GCSEs, A levels, University and being able to cope with doing only one job.

I upped their after school activities. Lots of dance, martial arts, drama etc anything that used up their energy.

Dd is a qualified teacher in a couple of activities. Ds is qualified in other things.

With your Ds I think it could be he is just not ready for a school environment.

Just because he is one of the eldest doesn’t mean his maturity is there.

Ds is a summer born and behind everyone both academically and maturity wise. He really didn’t get school till year 2 by which time everything had moved on and he was floundering again.

If he had been kept back 2 years it would have been better for him.

You have to think a lot of countries don’t have school for this age group they are still considered as nursery age.

That’s a really good point @Oliversmumsarmy thanks I’m going to keep an open mind... he’s either just not mature enough yet to behave appropriately in all situations. Or he’s aware of what he’s doing...and pushing boundaries somewhere new, so not settling in well, or he’s got some underlying SEN.... if it turns out it’s not a form of ADHD/ASD and it doesn’t all go away with consistent discipline or maturity I guess I’ll have to go back to the drawing board!

"Is it however completely unreasonable for me to hope that he might mature and grow out of some of these behaviours?"

It's impossible to say without knowing him. I've certainly seen it happen, but then I've also seen many parents dismiss such behaviours as immaturity and live to regret it.

If he were my son, I'd be disciplining consistently, supporting the school's approach and investigating SEND. None of that will do any harm if he ultimately just matures and proves to be NT, but you're hitting the ground running if there is a problem. Besides, you do need to do everything you can to protect the other children.

Invite friends for playdates to see how he interacts with his peers. Volunteer to help in his class or on trips so that you can observe him in the school setting.

These are just normal child behaviours. Some grow out of it as soon as it starts some take longer to stop. The British seem to be obsessive about repressing these behaviours so you rarely see them but they are quite normal. Some children are just more difficult to manage. Everyone gets there eventually though.

"Everyone gets there eventually though."

No they don't. Some little children exhibiting unwanted behaviour grow into bigger children exhibiting unwanted behaviour and then adults exhibiting unwanted behaviour.

The kids causing trouble in your town, or at your local secondary school, were once little children exhibiting unwanted behaviours and might have gone down a different path if their parents had taken the involved approach that op is taking instead of blithely putting their primary school behaviours down to immaturity.

I do hope I can one day look back and say it was immaturity. But the thought of him turning into that junior school child/pre-teen/teenager/adult displaying unacceptable behaviour is what seriously worries me.

I agree with everyone who has posted on this thread so thank you!

I know it’s only been a day since I posted, but I am so happy as he had a really good day. He was polite and courteous to teachers, helpful and kind to his friends and even got an award for it. (Other much more well behaved children have been getting awards in previous weeks so I was ecstatic to see that he also got one today).

We have regular play dates and I’m not sure if I mentioned that his behaviour is absolutely fine and “normal” when he’s around friends outside of school. It’s bizarre to me that the unsavoury behaviour tends to come out mostly when something is snatched from him at school, but at home he is so giving, always sharing his toys with friends, letting friends take home a toy even, and often giving things to his little brother if his brother wants something more. I’ve seen him have something snatched from him numerous times without him even reacting.

I will definitely see if I can attend some of his classes. And school trips. Thank you all for the suggestions.